Italian bashing at the WC?

[Purple Fencer]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by Ben[PrFC]:
<strong>I dont think I've ever witnessed a black card being awarded, tho I've only been fencing about 2 years, but I did hear about an interesting one a few months ago. It was at the Pomme De Terre at brandeis, there was a new referee being observed, and he was reffing a team foil bout between new york athletic club and...some club from..pennsylvania? I dont know. Anyways, they're all acting like jerks and the director is handling it well. The last touch is scored, the guy from penn who lost the touch shouted "Bull F-ing Sht!" Turned his back to the director, dropped his mask, kicked it backwards at the director. It missed, crossed I think 2 more strips and almost hit my coach, who was directing some foil or epee bout. Without turning around to see who had done it, he pulls his black card out of his pocket, turns around to see at least 2, maybe 3 other directors holding up black cards.
They spent the rest of the day arguing which percentage of the black card they each had.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">That's funny! I'm going to pass that on to Derek Cotton tonight...see how he likes it.

[Mo]

This year at Summer Nationals there was a well know young male saber fencer from California who made it through all the pools and was in a direct elimination when the ref finally told him to knock off the wind up on the slash from parry 4. He gave every guy in the pool a slash mark against the upper chest area. He should have been carded for brutality.
The funny thing was, as soon as he was warned, he used the same action but not the windup and didn't hurt anyone else.
I agree the refs need to tell people to back off.
In a Denver NAC Youth meet,(14 MS) one kid was given a red card and a warning also in saber. The ref said, "you don't have to cut him in half."
I saw the kid who had been warned later and he thought it was uproariously funny. He went by joking with his friends. The poor young small kid he had been fencing didn't seem to think it was nearly as funny.
As a mom, this kind of stuff just makes you want to SCREAM!!!!

[edew]

I unfortunately have a very heavy hand in sabre (which is why I try not to fence it too often). I almost always apologize for the hard hits. I can't stop it, though, so my opponents have to just tough it out and accept the apologies.

Oh well.

[veeco]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by Mo:
<strong>This year at Summer Nationals there was a well know young male saber fencer from California who made it through all the pools and was in a direct elimination when the ref finally told him to knock off the wind up on the slash from parry 4. He gave every guy in the pool a slash mark against the upper chest area. He should have been carded for brutality.
The funny thing was, as soon as he was warned, he used the same action but not the windup and didn't hurt anyone else.
I agree the refs need to tell people to back off.
In a Denver NAC Youth meet,(14 MS) one kid was given a red card and a warning also in saber. The ref said, "you don't have to cut him in half."
I saw the kid who had been warned later and he thought it was uproariously funny. He went by joking with his friends. The poor young small kid he had been fencing didn't seem to think it was nearly as funny.
As a mom, this kind of stuff just makes you want to SCREAM!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">This is also why fencing is a great school of life. As a kid, when I started fencing, I had to accept the fact that there was people who were just a$$holes and that the best thing I could do about it was not to fall down to their level.

Ultimately, it's not generally the kids who brag the loudest who become great fencers in the seniors. See, when you are a kid, maybe you have some kind of advantage because you're bigger, faster, stronger. You take advantage of it when you are a kid, and kids being kids, some of them are going to brag about it, or use that strength in not so acceptable ways.

The thing is, 3-4 years down the line, those kids will realize that they took the "easy path to success" and that they are now stuck. They are stuck because the people they used to beat up on had their development too. They became as big as you are now. But during that time when you were beating them up, they were learning other things, and getting the technical foundation that is needed.

So, while it is hard as a parent I'm sure to see your kid being beat up on, and while refs should do their best to prevent it, when it occasionally happens, the best is to shrug it off, and let your kid become the smart one, and help him understand that they will earn much more by working harder than the brats.

Incidentally, it's usually the kids who where the brutal brats who become temper tantrum specialists in the senior circuits. Catch'em early should be the motto there.

[135711]

i remember a few saber incidents, it went unnoticed for the most part. as long as the tantrumer doesnt lob anything at a person it seemed to be okay.

[Mo]

So, while it is hard as a parent I'm sure to see your kid being beat up on, and while refs should do their best to prevent it, when it occasionally happens, the best is to shrug it off, and let your kid become the smart one, and help him understand that they will earn much more by working harder than the brats.
Veeco dear,
May I ask how old you are?? You are pretty darned smart even if you do use a point weapon. I have lately been totally impressed by many of your replys.
I must say that you are right. My younger fencer has seen some recent success because she used brains instead of brawn and beat the person who has been putting big bruises at past competitions.
She was very pleased.

[damianip]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by Mo:
<strong>So, while it is hard as a parent I'm sure to see your kid being beat up on, and while refs should do their best to prevent it, when it occasionally happens, the best is to shrug it off, and let your kid become the smart one, and help him understand that they will earn much more by working harder than the brats.
Veeco dear,
May I ask how old you are?? You are pretty darned smart even if you do use a point weapon. I have lately been totally impressed by many of your replys.
I must say that you are right. My younger fencer has seen some recent success because she used brains instead of brawn and beat the person who has been putting big bruises at past competitions.
She was very pleased.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Veeco a onze ans, mais il est tres intelligent!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Paolo

[sallearmourer]

Being one of a sabre fencer that fence before electric sabre. I remenber some hits that today who get a black for but back then your touch had to be seen and heard. On the subject of Black Cards I have as a offical armourer at a USFA event throw a black card on a fencer for letting the wire from the reel go back from the end of the strip back and breaking the reel.

Tim

<small>[ 08-24-2002, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: sallearmourer ]</small>

[135711]

veeco, i haven't heard the phrase 'beat up' in a long time. we used to use the phrase when we were little kids and watched the irish boys rumble after school. i can't believe you guys still do that.

[swordsen]

I don't see this as bashing the Italians unless other teams were heaving their gear around and not getting the same penalty. The rule is very clear, throw your gear, get a black card.
The question is usually asked at this point of why bother, the bout is over. At local levels it really makes no difference but at the national (and I assume international although I have no sure knowledge) the black carded fencer gets no points.....

[135711]

you know, as an italian, i really get upset over racist remarks. i've been called wop once too much, among other things. in fact, here where i live, on my first job at city hall, a fool followed me around the building almost every day because he thought i was mob and was worried about the voting processes [i was a voting greeter and helped people register to vote]. then when he couldnt take it anymore, he called me into the office to ask me about my 'ties' in new york, he was apparently insane and is no longer employed by the city.