Masks, vision, and sweat

[maser]

I'm a newly minted fencer, and I'd love to hear what more experienced people have to say about this topic.

Here's what I--with VERY limited experience--think:

It's not easy to see my opponent's foil. There are several reasons for this: the mesh of the mask is a necessary evil, but it just seems so dark looking out. I train in a clubhouse that's not lit like a gym, and that could be part of the problem. Then too, as we age we need increasing amounts of light to see. At 45 I'm usually the oldest person in the room at my club, often by a factor of 2.

And I wear glasses, and they fog up in the confines of the mask. Being out of shape, I sweat more than I will when I'm better conditioned, but at this point, it's a problem. I'm using some supposed no-fog stuff--doesn't work. Any suggestions?

Also, what about caps, sweatbands, etc. to deal with some of that sweat? Do people use them or is the mask liner supposed to take care of that? I'm training hard, and all that sweat running down my face tickles, plus it makes my glasses slip, and of course you can't push them back up with the mask in place.

Are some brands of mask better for looking out of than others?

How can I see better when I'm fencing?

I look forward to your responses! Thanks!

[noodle]

caps and sweatbands are pretty regularly used by some people to control hair and sweat (suprise). mask liner takes care of some of it, but some people have a heavier sweat flow than others.

glasses do fog and i'd suggest getting contacts to fence with. i know a few people who fence with glasses and i've never actually asked them how they make it work.

the mask mesh is a necessary evil, but you get used to it. its to the point with me that my mind ignores the mesh. i can remember actions in my mind's eye and no mesh is there.

[Pho]

As someone who fences with glasses, you can get the stuff the put in the diving masks to make sure it doesn't fog up. Although in a pinch, salivia works just as well.

[Inquartata]

I wear a sweatband and croakies to keep my glasses in place. I seldom have any trouble with fogging, but on the rare occasions when I do I usually resort to licking them. Gross, but it works.

[Peach]

I take off my glasses for fencing. I don't need to see my opponent's weapon--I watch the distance between us and general movement, so a little blurriness is a good thing. I really ought to wear a sweatband or a backwards baseball cap, but frankly wiping the sweat out of my eyes is a good way to gain a little thinking time between points (well, I am a sabre fencer).

[glowstix]

I don't need to see my opponent's weapon.

wwhhhaaattt??????

[Peach]

wwhhhaaattt??????

I get far more information from their distance, their movements, and their prior actions than I would get watching the weapon. If you watch the weapon you're already hit.

[esskreemr]

I've never understand people who can wear their glasses inside their masks. I could never do it.

I use to fence without my glasses but have switched to contacts.

As far as the sweat is concerned, perhaps a better quality mask is in order. They cost more but some have removeable linings that absorb and wick sweat away. My current fave is an Allstar FIE with comfort lining. My old mask would be soaked in no time, the Allstar stays fairly dry.

Next I'm going to invest in a Leon Paul Jacket. They make the linings to wick away sweat and help stay cool. I don't have a bottemless pit for a wallet (or maybe I do, so that's where all my money is going!), so I've been saving for a while. I'm happy that some companies understand that fencing is athletic and are developing comfortable, performance clothing with these qualities.

[great bowyer]

but it just seems so dark looking out. I train in a clubhouse that's not lit like a gym, and that could be part of the problem. Then too, as we age we need increasing amounts of light to see. At 45 I'm usually the oldest person in the room at my club, often by a factor of 2.

i have actually just recently experimented with this, but i found that if you wear sunglasses between bouts and take them off right before you fence, it will keep your pupils dilated. when you take them off and put on your mask, your eyes will already be adjusted for the light. everything looks brighter and you can see better.

[kalivor]

Lots of good advice, and I have little to add.

But ...

Listen to Peach -- at least about where to divert your attention (I think good eyesight is an asset when fencing). Stop watching your opponent's weapon -- it's not just the thing they hit you with -- all feints are made with the weapon. For quite a few people, they don't even bother to use their legs or arms -- they just feint with the weapon. You'll have a much better feel for your opponent's intent if you're watching THEM instead.

[MikeHarm]

This is a subject I found something useful out about at nationals. The place to go is Scuba shops, they sell great anti-fogging stuff for your glasses by the gallon thats way better than any of the other things I've used and at a much better price. I tried some called TOP-glass out, and my fogging problem went away for both days I was fencing with one application.

[Katman]

I wear glasses and they only really fog up when I take my mask off. I've never had any significant problems with glasses fogging. I do know several fencers that switch to contacts.

I wear a du rag to keep my hair from escaping its bun and migrating into my face. The fashionable, panty hose du rags are too flimsy for the constant masking and demasking, so I recommend you travel on over to a biker shop and pick up a proper cloth du rag. Avoid anything with obnoxiously long strings or backflaps.

The du rag is really only for my hair. I'm a big head sweater and anything I wear will result in a soaked item of clothing and sweat running down my face regardless.

[geezer]

All good points here. I don't wear my glasses to fence, either. I'm lucky, old but farsighted, and a little fuzziness is worth it for what I retain in depth perception. And you'll get used to the mask.

You might want to try a bandana on your head, works for me. And like they've said, watch the distance, the tempo, the body, the feet, the arm, the guard, and sometimes even the blade.

non iligitimi carborundum

[Purple Fencer]

I haven't had fogging problems in several years....basically since I returned to the sport and got a new mask. Better ventilation, I suppose. It USED to be a major problem.

For sweat...when I was competing regularly (before I stafrted selling equipment) I wore a sweat band sewn into a hip-hop cap that had the name and logo of my favorite chili place (Chili my Soul in Encino, CA). Since I only compete a couple of times a year now, and only in sabre, I'm not working up as much of a sweat.

[NoFleche]

How about one more suggestion:

I have the Uhlmann mask with the non-removable liner than rests across your forehead. It used to get clammy and disgustingly soaked w/ sweat until I tried this totally goofy-sounding solution: Place an adhesive backed panty liner or mini pad across the forehead part of the mask liner (no joke). It absorbs the sweat, stays dry, and you just change it out when it gets grimy. The adhesive is quite strong and the size is a perfect fit. [Guys, if you didn't grow up with a sister and you don't know what a panty liner/mini pad is, ask you wife or significant other which bathroom drawer she keeps her stash in!]

I heard about this trick when collecting goodies to send to troops in Iraq. (They use panty liners/mini pads inside their helmets to help stay dry when it's 120+ degrees in the summer.) It may not be for everyone but so far it's worked great for this very sweaty fencer and I haven't had one fall off in a DE yet !

[cfaustus]

Bandana's work great for sweat and they give you that cavalier, pirate look you just don't get with a sweat band or baseball cap.

Also, regarding getting used to the mesh, try wearing it to do everything during practice. I have had a couple students who even told me they felt a tad clausterphobic in them. I made them wear the mask from the moment they stepped into the salle to the moment they left (Taking it off only to salute). In a week, they told me they felt completely comforatable. If this is a bit much, try wearing your mask during footwork and warm up to start out with...

[Purple Fencer]

How about one more suggestion:

I have the Uhlmann mask with the non-removable liner than rests across your forehead. It used to get clammy and disgustingly soaked w/ sweat until I tried this totally goofy-sounding solution: Place an adhesive backed panty liner or mini pad across the forehead part of the mask liner (no joke). It absorbs the sweat, stays dry, and you just change it out when it gets grimy. The adhesive is quite strong and the size is a perfect fit. [Guys, if you didn't grow up with a sister and you don't know what a panty liner/mini pad is, ask you wife or significant other which bathroom drawer she keeps her stash in!]

Man...that's an image I do NOT need!!!! LOL!!!

[D'Artag-NOT]

If I tried to fence without my glasses, I wouldn't be able to find my opponent!

Seriously, one of the things I like about fencing is that I feel my glasses are safe behind my mask. Been hypermyopic since childhood and I'm very wary of any threat to them (and have never been able to tolerate contacts). I'd go for the diver's stuff if I had a big fogging problem; I figure that's got to work, you can't just whip off your diving mask to wipe away the fog!

[Inquartata]

I've never understand people who can wear their glasses inside their masks. I could never do it. I use to fence without my glasses but have switched to contacts.

I am equally perplexed by people who can stick little bits of plastic directly onto their eyeballs! Brrr!

[Inquartata]

Stop watching your opponent's weapon

Except that it's really quite hard to parry something you can't see. Unless you're a Jedi master, like Peach.

I don't watch the weapon particularly---I'm in the "everywhere and nowhere" camp---but I do like to be ABLE to see things.

You'll have a much better feel for your opponent's intent if you're watching THEM instead.

Though there are people who are very good at deliberately signalling one thing with body language while doing another with the sabre. Their coaches actually train them to do it that way....