[CFML] Re: form and function and techniques and tactics and...

[Jeff Savit]

Kim Moser said:
>A fencer who has good form but is unable to apply it effectively
usually just lacks experience (i.e. hasn't been fencing long). On the
other hand, a very effective fencer with poor form is often nothing more
than an experienced fencer. To compare a fencer whose strength is form
with a fencer whose strength is function is like comparing apples and
oranges.

I have to disagree. We've all seen fencers with lovely form, who have
trained for years in lessons, but were not particularly capable on the
strip defending themselves or attacking. Effectiveness requires much
more than good form; it demands tactical sense, aggression, grit, speed,
reflexes, hand-eye coordination, guile, and so on. To elevate form above
function is to confuse ends with means. Good form helps create good
results, but is only part of what it takes, and furthermore can be
subjective.

If we use "if it were sharp" as our criterion for success and failure,
then we should be elevating effectiveness over form - yet not discard
form.
--
Jeff Savit



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[Zebee Johnstone]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 09:32:20PM -0800, Archone wrote:

> Form is important if- and ONLY if- it ADDS to function. I've trained
> in both the TKD reverse punch, and the Boxing rear hand cross. My TKD
> instructors insisted that I demonstrate "proper form" by keeping both
> my shoulders and hips parallel, while keeping my rear heel flat on the
> ground and my lead hand pulled back into a precise elbow strike. The
> cross breaks ALL of these rules... but guess which one hits harder,
> AND provides better defense while striking? >

Form follows function, it's important to know what the function is. All
sports have rules and artifacts which change the function.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/evolution.html has a good
description of how rules changed boxing, amd how this has influenced how
eastern martial arts are taught.

THe infamous flick is an example of how this happens in fencing, but
there are many other things in classical fencing which are artifacts of
flat smooth surfaces, pistes, target areas, and forbidden moves which
shape the art. Various forms are right for that, and wrong if the
opponent isn't playing by the same rules...

The TKD punch is right for a sport that's about flexibility and
movement and light touches and fighting other TKDers. If you want
to hammer someone, then TKD isn't really the right thing to learn.
that "no nonsense" site has a lot on the differences between martial
art and fighting.

Every move has a counter, we are taught that in fencing. But still only
moves within the rules do, modern fencers faced with historical fencers
realise their form isn't right for that job.

THe function has to be determined. In classical fencing, it's fencing
within the classical rules. I think the form's been worked out pretty
well for that. If it was to duel without rules, much of it might be bad
form....

Zebee


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