electric equipment

[masterrock]

I am fairly new to fencing (I became interested about January of the year) and have watched a few competitions. I have been using Triplette for my non-electric foils and they give very good service! I think I am ready to progress and I need to find some inexpensive electric foils, body cords, lames,etc. If anyone has suggaestions, it would be appreciated. Thanks! [img]null[/img]

[Stryder]

Equipment vendors:

The Fencing Post
Triplette Competition Arms
American Fencing
Blue-Guantlet
Blade-fencing
Physical Chess
Santelli
Allstar
Zivkovic
Le Touche' of Class

[Craig]

You can get to the different vendor's web sites by going to the Fencing.Net Search Pages: Equipment Suppliers.

Also, if you do a search on the message board for 'equipment' you'll find several threads that discuss people's experiences with the different vendors.

Hope this helps,
Craig

[neevel]

Blue Gauntlet has the best inexpensive lames, and the 'easy-fix' Uhlmann-style 2-prongs are great. The BG lames are a nickel-tinned copper with a high strand density-- they're fairly robust and if washed regularly to keep corrosion away will hold up well. If you know that you'll be fencing a lot, though, you'll be better off getting a good stainless lame (Uhlmann, Allstar, or Santelli) or an Infinity-- it'll last longer, so you'll end up paying less in the long run. The Fencing Post carries Uhlmann and has their 20% e-mail discount. If you're going with 2-prong cords and sockets, get German-style (Uhlmann, Allstar, or BG-- not the solid pin knockoffs from Blade, Physical Chess, or Zivkovic) instead of Prieur (BG's basic cords cost less than Prieur, anyway). If you're going with bayonet, get either real Leon Paul, or else Uhlmann/Allstar-- avoid having anything to do with cheap knock-off bayonet body cords and sockets.

As for foils, Russian blades are the best value for the money at the low end. Do yourself a favor and spend the extra up front for Uhlmann or Allstar points (regardless of what kind of points you get, order some spare springs and screws, and a couple of tips if you get Prieur points).

If you really want to save big bucks on top-flight gear, and can wait for international shipping, check here, and keep in mind that 1 Euro =~ US$0.85. Even with international shipping (they have a page with the rates), you should still come out well ahead of what you'd pay in the U.S. Keep in mind that clothing is in European sizes (i.e., a size 44 lame is not a 44" chest). They've updated their site so you can now order completely on-line (major league cool-- big time).

-Dave

[Emfuser]

Hang on a second. I see a reversed currency exchange rate. I just got a massive order from Uhlmann international, and had been checking the exchange rates: $0.46~=1 DM and $0.85~=1 Euro.

As I've said before in other posts, if you're serious about getting a good bit of equipment at massive savings, get in contact with Uhlmann International. I outfitted myself with EVERYTHING you could want for a good five years. Comparing the $1600 I spent (including S&H and customs) vs the $3171 I calculated at the Post (not including S&H), the choice was a no-brainer.

Dave is right in that you could benefit from ordering from overseas. http://www.uhlmann-fechtsport.de/inhalt_e.htm (don't put an l on the end of the address) will put you at Uhlmann International's english home page. They have excellent service and are very easy to do business with.

Mike

[neevel]

Not to be nitpicky or anything, but you just gave the same exchange Euro<->US$ excange rate as I did (A=B says the same thing as B=A) .

-Dave

[Purple Fencer]

Regardless of what brand or dealer you purchase from, do yourself a favor and standardize all your equipment. Don't have one foil with a French tip and one with a German, 'cause when you have to do a between-bouts tip repair, you don't have time to look for the differances between the two; they are NOT interchangable.

On the same lines, if you have spare tip parts (the barrell, tip, spring and screws) make sure they're all from the same purchase lot. I've seen many French barrels that are slightly different from manufacturer to manufacturer, even if the base design's the same. Consistency is the key to any equipment maintenance program.

You might want to look into getting a copy of a booklet by Dr. Rudy Volkman called (hope I can remember this), "Electric Equipment: How it Works, Why it Breaks, and How to Fix It."

And don't forget to check your body cords! The wires have a way of working out of the contact pins (at both ends of the cable) at the worst time...right in the middle of a bout!

Good luck, and welcome to our world!

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: Purple Fencer ]

[Prometheus]

On a continuation of Sam's note, a little care will save money in the short and long run. General rules of thumb include the following:

- Keep anything metal away from anything wet. This includes things that are "stainless"! and is doubly important for cheaper gear. In addition to letting a lame dry as soon as possible, wiping down weapns after a bout can be helpfull. Also note that if your mask is missing any insulation (it is) it should be counted as metal.

- With regard to anything metal: The more you bend it the sooner it will break. The tiny wires in a lame, body cords, spare wires for weapons, mask mesh.

- Electric weapons tend to malfunction less if they are treated well. This means cleaning the tip periodically, wiping down the blade after practice, dealing with any wires that pop out immediately and being generally midfull of the tip. The natural course of fencing will eventually break your weapon in some way or another. But basic care will make it last significantly longer.

Electric gear is not cheap, especially the "good stuff" which is typically imported. Going that little extra distance when you are tired and want to go home can greatly benifit you in the longrun. Afterall, if you can prevent the replacement of two bodychords in a season, thats your USFA memebership fee. An electric weapon could be the entrance fee to a NAC and a saber lame could potentially cover airfare to nationals...

[oiuyt]

I definately second what Sam said about getting the spares all from the same lot. I was talking to Dan DeChaine the other day and he has Prieur foil springs from 4 consecutive years that are 4 different diameters. Similar problems can be found with nearly every manufacturer.
-B

[Purple Fencer]

[QUOTE]I was talking to Dan DeChaine the other day and he has Prieur foil springs from 4 consecutive years that are 4 different diameters. Similar problems can be found with nearly every manufacturer.[QUOTE]


Ahhh...Dan DeChaine. Every time I see him, his testing gear gets more elaborate...kinda like my equipment bag, but it services more people How'd you end up at Nats, btw?

Prometheus, thanks for the reminders! I'd forgotton about those!

[neevel]

You should've see the test box Dan toted along with him the one day he was in Sacramento this year: sockets to test 2-prong, Leon Paul bayonet, Carmimari, Tokyo sports, Italian mobile contact-- all in a nice compact case.

In addition to the issues with variations in production runs, there's also the matter that there are a couple of different manufacturers of "French" points out there used by different vendors, and design of some of the point parts are just a hair shy of compatible. American, The Fencing Post, Santelli sell Prieur points; Blue Gauntlet, Blade, Physical Chess sell Sport 7 points. The Sport 7 foil springs, for example, are just a tad longer than Prieur, and you'll often need to stretch a Prieur spring to get it to pass weight when used with a Sport 7 point. Sport 7 screws are also a bit shorter than Prieur screws (since the barrel walls are thinner).

In general, a basic rule (as Tom & Ray Magliozzi always say on Car Talk) is that the cheapskate frequently ends up paying the most in the long run.

-Dave

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by neevel:
[QB]You should've see the test box Dan toted along with him the one day he was in Sacramento this year: sockets to test 2-prong, Leon Paul bayonet, Carmimari, Tokyo sports, Italian mobile contact-- all in a nice compact case.

Wish I'd seen it! 'Course, nothing Dan creates really surprised me any more.

Amazes, yes. Surprises no. There is, after all, a reason he does so much high-level armoring.

[Purple Fencer]

Yo, Neevel,

Who makes the foil barrells that are round at the base instead of having the flat spots so you can actually tighten them? I'd like to avoid them, if possible.

[neevel]

Those are the old-style Prieur foil point (they switched to the current pattern about 8 years ago). They had a thinner-walled barrel with no flats, and a tip with a slightly smaller diameter head (easiest way to spot the difference on a foil is that the old Prieur tips had red plastic on the tip, the new ones have white). They're _mostly_ compatible with the current pattern, but they took a shorter screw (since the barrel was thinner). If you use new Prieur screws with the old barrels, it is actually possible for the longer screws to make the tip stick by pinching against the shaft of the tip if made too tight.

I'd thought they'd been pretty much gone, but then Blade was selling pre-wired foil blades with them at Sacramento. They must've found an old stock of them for cheap somewhere.

To tighten them, I take out the tip and spring and insert a small brad nail though the screw-holes. That gives a wrench something to purchase on.

-Dave

[ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: neevel ]

[Purple Fencer]

<Those are the old-style Prieur foil point (they switched to the current pattern about 8 years ago). They had a thinner-walled barrel with no flats, and a tip with a slightly smaller diameter head (easiest way to spot the difference on a foil is that the old Prieur tips had red plastic on the tip, the new ones have white). They're _mostly_ compatible with the current pattern, but they took a shorter screw (since the barrel was thinner). If you use new Prieur screws with the old barrels, it is actually possible for the longer screws to make the tip stick by pinching against the shaft of the tip if made too tight.>

Thanks! I was wondering about that! You've just explained away about 90% of the problems I've run into when rewiring or changing tips.

I also nitice that the older style tips have a smaller diameter head.

[Emfuser]

Hmmm... I did overlook my mistake, Dave. I'll give credit to the half dozen or so doubles of G&T I was drinking beforehand.

"No ossifer... I'm sotally tober!"
Mike

[Purple Fencer]

[QUOTE
"No ossifer... I'm sotally tober!"
Mike[/QUOTE]

*snicker* Mike, sounds like you have a little dain brammage

[Purple Fencer]

Neevil said:

<In addition to the issues with variations in production runs, there's also the matter that there are a couple of different manufacturers of "French" points out there used by different vendors, and design of some of the point parts are just a hair shy of compatible. American, The Fencing Post, Santelli sell Prieur points; Blue Gauntlet, Blade, Physical Chess sell Sport 7 points. The Sport 7 foil springs, for example, are just a tad longer than Prieur, and you'll often need to stretch a Prieur spring to get it to pass weight when used with a Sport 7 point. Sport 7 screws are also a bit shorter than Prieur screws (since the barrel walls are thinner).>

Dave, what about German points? Same prob?

How about French & German epee point assemblies?

[neevel]

Yeah, you can get it with German points, too. I prefer to specify a _manufacturer_ (i.e., Uhlmann), as opposed to just "German", since there are more than one company making German-style foil points (PBT, for example, makes their own German pattern points).

-Dave