What's your fencing lineage?

[Craig]

This go brought up

I thought it would be interesting for fencers here to trace their coaches back through their coaching tree and come up with your own "patence of nobility".

Those with multiple coaches will have a more interesting tree.

As an example, here is part of mine (no particular order in the coaches):

Scott Dunlop (first coach)
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Gene Gettler (up to 1989) Ron Miller (through UNC)
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| |

Csaba Elthes

I'll have to confirm who Gene Gettler learned his coaching from, but he earned his fencing master at Cornell - same program that produced Buckie Leech, I believe.





Craig

[mtarascio]

Joe Pechinsky

Michael D'Asaro

Claude Caux

Ion Drimba

I have always regarded Joe as my coach. I will once again be taking lessons with him beginning in August.

[grotto]

Kim Rahl (Great Lakes Sword Club) my coach
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Maestro Charles Schmitter (MSU Coach)
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Maestro Giorgio Santelli
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back through the mists of time (I would love to know the rest of the lineage)


if only I could represent the lineage better (donkey in a line or throughbreds)

[bjacobs]

I think by this time my epee coach Aladar Kogler has become his own lineage.

[Victor]

Herb Frankle <-- Bud "Slice" Kensington-Smythe <-- M. D'Argent <-- Francois LeFlore III

Also trained briefly under Luke (Lucas?) Milisauljevic, but that didn't last long enough for me to recount his family tree. He was a big proponent of Russian style.

Yeah, that sounds about right. As far as made-up coaches' names go, that is ...

Actually, the government won't allow me to discuss my training. National security and all that rot. You know how it is.

[jeff]

I'm already confused by notations, so I'll make it worse. "A -> B" here is "A trained by B", so my lineage is:

Israel Colon -> Giorgio Santelli -> Italo Santelli
Al Kwartler -> Giorgio Santelli and Ed Lucia
Semyon Pinchasov
Jerzy Grzymski

I don't have lineages for Semyon or Jerzy. I also took a very small number of lessons from others over the years (eg: Zivkovic, Kogler), but the ones above were the ones I've trained under for any time.

[Zelda]

Ok, I dont know my current coaches lineage but i do know he fits in around the same era as Mike O'Brian in this tree.

David Airey ---> Gary Worsfield ----> Mike O'Brian

This may be wrong, but I am fairly sure it is correct.

[fencerontheline]

My first coach== Zaddick Longenbach----->Miklos Barthaw
My current coach== Sasha Romankov------???

[Grasshopper]

Zaharr Ioffe -- Glenn Sampson -- Jujie Luan -- myself

[The0ne]

Mr. Zivkovic (Once upon a time Harvard coach)-->Viveka Fox (My current coach)

[sabreur]

I have been coached by:

Dale Rodgers
Michael Gaylord
M. Simonitz

Current coaches

Istvan Katona (Hungarian)
Alex Perlman (Ukrainian)

Simonitz and Katona both were trained in the Hungarian sports university system, and have direct lineage to Italo Santelli, through people like Szabo (who Istvan knew...).

Regards, MR

[shlepzig]

Craig, as your entries open up you could build some thing like a geneology of fencing styles, and people would not have to repeat information whom have shared coaches, and could find out more about the influences that past coaches have had.

My coaches are listed in order of my training. I can not speak for the order of those beyond (I culled the information from various biographies, which all jive with my memories). There is certainly more here to know.

Shlepzig - Sam Blanchard
|-Peter Harmer (College Coach at Univeristy of Oregon)
|- Len Carnighan (Studio of American Fencing, Portland)
| |-Charles Selberg
| | |- Eric Funke
| | |- Jack Nottingham
| | | |-Aldo Nadi
| | |- Hans Halberstadt
| | |- George Pillar
| |
| |- Jack Nottingham (see above)
| |-Eduardo Mangiarotti
|
|- Charles "Chuck" Hurley (Princeton YMCA)


What would Tufte do?
For further analysis you might want to include fencers you competed or trained with as influences. It would be interesting to look at the lienage of coaching. Especially for those people who are interested in the idea of schools of fencing and the history of styles and techniques.

Shlep

[Victor]

Honestly, I've never considered who was taught by whom before I met that person. Doesn't seem to matter, really, as long as my results are good.

Isn't this just some sort of pseudo-elitist pedigree? Like a kennel club, or daughters of the revolution, or royalty ascension, or seven degrees of Kevin Bacon?

[Peach]

All I know is that even though my coach is American, when giving lessons he uses a coaching argot which makes him sound as if English was a second language for him, and he's passed that interesting creole on to his apprentices . . .

[greenchick]

Isn't this just some sort of pseudo-elitist pedigree? Like a kennel club, or daughters of the revolution, or royalty ascension, or seven degrees of Kevin Bacon?

No. Unlike the DAR, the fact that one coach learned from another actually predicts interesting and useful things, like what sort of style they're likely to promote, what weapons they're likely to be strongest at teaching, what the emphasis of their training is likely to be....

[mischerma]

Only had three Instructors..but good ones

Maitre' January
Dr. William O'Brien
Edoardo & Dario Mangiarotti

[JAnthony]

Kim Rahl (Great Lakes Sword Club) my coach
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Maestro Charles Schmitter (MSU Coach)
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Maestro Giorgio Santelli
|||
back through the mists of time (I would love to know the rest of the lineage)


if only I could represent the lineage better (donkey in a line or throughbreds)

I had Maestro Schmitter while at MSU - he said Maestro Santelli taught him "as a professional courtesy"!

[Victor]

No. Unlike the DAR, the fact that one coach learned from another actually predicts interesting and useful things, like what sort of style they're likely to promote, what weapons they're likely to be strongest at teaching, what the emphasis of their training is likely to be....

Or so one would assume.
Generational training doesn't serve us well, however, if the student is less-than-bright or the coach couldn't adequately pass along his knowledge. And that's a legitimate concern, because there are very few people in the world who can master a realm of knowledge and then become good mentors in turn.

[Elemental]

Only one Coach so far.

Rocky Beach

I've only been fencing since August of 03

[sabersaber]

Giorgio Santelli -first coach (told me never to pick up anything other than
saber Giorgio got me a full scholarship at Rutgers)
John Geraci - while at Rutgers
Csaba Elthes - after Rutgers
Ed Korfanty -