Club Style / reputation

[Artisan]

Since in another thread someone mentioned the (rather silly) idea of judging a fencer by their patch, I'm wondering what peoples ideas/ perceptions are about other clubs fencing styles / and or reputations. Has someone one told you what your club was known for and it came as a total surprise?

Internationally, countries have established styles based no doubt on their core national team coaches methods and tactics. Is USFA big enough to evolve regional styles or does it only differentiate at the individual club / coach level? Fencing and training with the same group all the time is bound to form some sort of "Fencing Gene Pool" plus with right of way weapons there is the influence of referreeing conventions (written or unwritten, interpreted or otherwise ) or lack thereof. I've heard for example "In New York that would be an attack in preparation, not a counter"

So... what have you heard? Some clubs are known for strength in a particular weapon, some for especially bad footwork...And lets just assume that its natural to think that YOUR club and YOUR coach are superior to all others, so we can cross that hurdle early.

[AndrewH]

As far as clubs go, I haven't noticed a huge discrepancy between members of different ones, but then again I don't think there's 2 people in my club who have the same style. High schools, however, are a different story. I'm not going to name any names but anybody else who fences/fenced HS in NJ will know what I'm talking about.

1) The low line attackers (R _ _ _ p _ o)
2) Counter-attackers (_ i _ g _ y)
3) "If we attack all the time, we'll never lose right of way!" (too many to mention)

Then there's reputation. Names have been omitted to protect the innocent.

1) NOOO! I CAN'T LOSE! THE DIRECTOR MUST BE BLIND!
2) NOOO! HOW COULD I LOSE? I'M SO STUPID! Maybe if I throw my weapon across the room, people will be intimidated.
3) *shrug* nice bout.
4) Damn, we won, now we have to stay longer (that'd be my team)

[noodle]

hey now, i don't think the idea's silly at all, the patch is just a public statement of what salle you belong to and as we all know some salles have certain reputations as you're suggesting here.

and even beyond that, what would you think of a fencer who you've never heard of who has nothing but really poorly-kept equipment that is ragged, torn, dirty, rusty, dented, etc.? i'm willing to bet your initial assumption isn't that they're an olympic fencer. people judge books by their cover at least initially. fact of life. that is what the patch thing is.

anyway, club reputations generally spawn from the fact that the club has produced quality fencers. i can think of quite a few of these clubs, as can anyone else.

regional style? not yet. we're not big enough and fencing is too much of an individual sport. national style, though, of course.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by noodle

regional style? not yet. we're not big enough and fencing is too much of an individual sport. national style, though, of course.

Now that's not quite true.

There are distinct styles associated with specific clubs once you keep going to NAC's.

For instance, those male epee fencers that hail from Golden Gate Fencing in SF all fence in a very similar style to Eric Hansen.

Is it a wonder that the Rashaan Greenhouse and Ben Bratton fence in a very similar manner?

Or how about the fencers from Rochester?

Clubs usually have a distinct style of fencing related to their coach.

You just have to go to a lot of events, watch, and if able to visit the other clubs, and you'll notice the styles.

[noodle]

well thats true, but that is generally because people from one coach learn similar things and therefore look similar in form. but i don't think thats quite the same thing. very close, but not quite. the entire club having one partiular style is a given. but a regional style is where most everyone in the area fences with a reasonably similar style. so much so that you can look at a fencer and say "they're from new york" or "they're from so cal" but not necessarily know which club they're from. there may be a few instances of this in the community, but its not widespread enough to consider it a rule of thumb.

[Artisan]

so... What specifically are the styles you mention? Please tell: more meat, less potatos.

What is the American Style? * exrta credit for a European perspective.

[ndfencer]

The Russians have a very mathmatical approach to the sport, numbers and analysis are key in trainging tehcniques. Also I think that in terms of training, Americans are very narrowminded, we don't encourage our fencers to participate in other sports, which I think hurts the fencers a lot. The few international fencers I know personally, were trained and were successful in other sports prior to even taking up fencing. Hence their athletic ability and coordination is higher from the get-go. I think that this is a definate advantage in fencing. I played a lot of sports in highschool, and although it took away some time from fencing it was as good for me mentally as physically. Americans have a very narrowminded view of fencing, but as for a real style, all are coches are european or the american ones were trained by europeans before, so ti'll be a while before our style really evolves for itself.

[The0ne]

Whenever I go to a NAC, I know that if I'm fencing someone with a FC patch, I've got a tough bout. . . I also know that fencers from New York city flick alot on average, and like to play preperation games. So yes, I think that there are regional styles, but they are based mainly around coaches.

[Victor]

Our club is known for its cross-dressing polka dancing and wine-tasting parties.

[The0ne]

hmmmm, probably doesn't inspire fear of your club in your opponents on the strip. . .

[wflaschka]

Originally Posted by Artisan

so... What specifically are the styles you mention? Please tell: more meat, less potatos. .. What is the American Style? * exrta credit for a European perspective.

(Ah, memories. Long ago, I had written a paper with a few paragraphs describing each national style. I joined this bboard for the purpose of someday sharing the the info and getting feedback. iirc, I lost the data in some crash or another before I could post.) ON topic: I'd be very surprised if someone could find a discrete "american" style. We are so regionalized, and our coaches are from everywhere. Based on our high-level fencers (or rather, their coaches), I guess we'd be a derivative of Eastern European fencing.

[noodle]

thats exactly what i was going to say
in america we have coaches from all over the place
for that reason, we don't have many coaches that other countries would call "american"
our national style is not having a unique national style. we're reasonably unpredictable, style-wise.

[davesaint]

Originally Posted by The0ne

hmmmm, probably doesn't inspire fear of your club in your opponents on the strip. . .

I beg to differ. Cross-dressing Polka dancers are very scary.

[The0ne]

Originally Posted by davesaint

I beg to differ. Cross-dressing Polka dancers are very scary.

you have a point!!!

[qatet]

Originally Posted by wflaschka

(Ah, memories. Long ago, I had written a paper with a few paragraphs describing each national style. I joined this bboard for the purpose of someday sharing the the info and getting feedback. iirc, I lost the data in some crash or another before I could post.) ON topic: I'd be very surprised if someone could find a discrete "american" style. We are so regionalized, and our coaches are from everywhere. Based on our high-level fencers (or rather, their coaches), I guess we'd be a derivative of Eastern European fencing.

And when you compare this to the "B" grade that the USFA just gave themselves on cooridination of their coaching program, it is no surprise.