Not PIL, what IS it?

[swordsen]

I have in the past used the call "sheer dumb luck" to describe an action. I think this would apply here.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by swordsen

I have in the past used the call "sheer dumb luck" to describe an action. I think this would apply here.

I'm inclined to agree. I just wonder under which rule I'd do so...

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I had an action like that recently, I had an opponent who was charging me. I parried the blade keeping the point directed towards the target, but before I could start extending for the riposte my opponent ran onto my point setting the light off while they remised tagging my lame.

Would that still count as a riposte without the extension occurring?

Of course! Nothing in the rules about the riposte having to extend. BUT, did you hesitate after parrying? Or did your opponent impale himself while you were parrying? A fine distinction, but aren't they all?

[MikeHarm]

It was a while I was parrying action.

Originally Posted by Schiavona

Of course! Nothing in the rules about the riposte having to extend. BUT, did you hesitate after parrying? Or did your opponent impale himself while you were parrying? A fine distinction, but aren't they all?

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

It was a while I was parrying action.

Your touche, bucko!

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I had an action like that recently, I had an opponent who was charging me. I parried the blade keeping the point directed towards the target, but before I could start extending for the riposte my opponent ran onto my point setting the light off while they remised tagging my lame.

Would that still count as a riposte without the extension occurring?

I had a similar situation. I took the parry, and I hit while parrying. No time to release the blade, extend or anything...

Both the fencer and I awarded the touch to me, calling it ripsote. Shortly after the bout, I spoke with an FIE rated ref about the touch and he cautioned me that such actions often look like a oppositional counterattack, and that the touch would most likely gone against me if my opponents light had gone off, which it did.

I thought he was crazy until I started refing myself, and then I noticed, those actions do look like an attemtped oppositional counterattack, in which case, they better be one light.

[MikeHarm]

So the danger is the director seeing the opponent as having one action(attack-oppositional counterattack), or is the interpretation you're talking about still 2 actions for the opponent like the attack is no, no reaction after the pary opponent remises and you counterattack into it failing to successfully oppose the blade on your way to target?

Is an oppositional counterattack the same as a time thrust?

Originally Posted by achilleus

I had a similar situation. I took the parry, and I hit while parrying. No time to release the blade, extend or anything...

Both the fencer and I awarded the touch to me, calling it ripsote. Shortly after the bout, I spoke with an FIE rated ref about the touch and he cautioned me that such actions often look like a oppositional counterattack, and that the touch would most likely gone against me if my opponents light had gone off, which it did.

I thought he was crazy until I started refing myself, and then I noticed, those actions do look like an attemtped oppositional counterattack, in which case, they better be one light.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

So the danger is the director seeing the opponent as having one action(attack-oppositional counterattack), or is the interpretation you're talking about still 2 actions for the opponent like the attack is no, no reaction after the pary opponent remises and you counterattack into it failing to successfully oppose the blade on your way to target?

Is an oppositional counterattack the same as a time thrust?

The danger is in the ref seeing the action as attack - counter as opposed to attack - parry riposte.

To elaborate my instance:

My opponent starts his attack, coupes and begins to finish in my four line with quick adv-lunge catching me flat footed.
I catch his blade in the 4 line before he hits me, and my light goes on as i'm parrying.
His light appears well after mine, but without and extra arm movements on his part.

We both agreed parry riposte.

The ref would have called it attack - counter.
Why? Because I hit, then failed to close the line.

An oppositional counter attack is a counter attack where the fencer tries to hit then close out the line to prevent the opponent from hitting. It's very common in epee, and the higher levels in foil. Cliff Bayer was great at it.

Hope that clears it up.