Refusing to fence someone.

[ReverseLunge]

Has anyone here ever had to tell a club member that you are no longer are willing to fence them? What was the reason for this? How did you put it to them and how did they react?

[MikeHarm]

The top ten reasons I've heard for not wanting to fence people are:

1 They're too brutal and people don't want to get injured

2 people saying they don't want to fence newbies that won't acknowledge touches or stop after they're hit

3 newbies not wanting to fence advanced fencer because they think the advanced fencers are calling stuff that didn't really land and when it does in dry

4 people afraid they'll get beaten

5 wanting to fence someone else instead (often an attractive member of the opposite sex)

6 cliques (the people in the clique fence together, you aren't in it get lost)

7 I'm going to take a lesson later and don't want to fence until after it

8. I just took a lesson and am too worn out to fence now (often said by people using excuse number 6 above)

9. The opponent keeps doing the same thing things boring me, I want to fence someone who changes their game when it doesn't work

10. I'm too stressed out from work, and just want to hang out and not fence anyone today

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Has anyone here ever had to tell a club member that you are no longer are willing to fence them? What was the reason for this? How did you put it to them and how did they react?

Yes.

They were not learning from fencing me, and I was not learning by fencing them.

I told them straight up it was a waste of our practice time, but if they wanted to drill/practice footwork with me would be great.

Most take it well. One took it poorly. It resolved itself when the person who took it poorly wanted to fence me, and the 5 touch bout took less than 20 seconds.

Needless to say, it's great having people who are willing to do footwork and drills with me. And those people that have done footwork and drills with me on a regular basis improved quickly.

[fence1848]

I used to think some of these excuses were kind of lame. Now, I'm beginning to realize the validity of them. Another one which I am beginning to realize is, "I need to train for summer nationals". I have to say this to fencers who are too young because, realistically, I will not run into anyone half my height in Div II MF since there is an age minimum for this event. So even if they are the best in their age group, it is a completely different game you have to fence against someone that much shorter than you.

Regarding the comment above about not wanting to fence against someone who is too brutal or who does not stop when a touch lands - in the case of some beginners, I will fence against them if I fell they are at a stage in their fencing where they are willing to learn. I do this so that I can fence against them in the future without concern for personal injury. However, I have refused to fence against someone in practice because they are too brutal. This is because this person has been fencing as long as I have (7 years) and he is still as brutal as he ws 7 years ago. He hasn't learned yet, and I don't want to risk my ribs on the hope that he'll suddenly learn in the next 5 minutes.

[Tsu-La]

I've only told one person I striaght out won't fence them anymore. He seemed to be a very violent person, and everytime we fenced and I beat him on touches, he would get angry (maybe it's the girl thing? he doesn't do it with anyone else) and hit me REALLY hard on touches. I got HUGE bruises, and he hit me so hard on the mask in one tournament that my ears were ringing and I had headaches for a couple days. After that bout I ripped off my mask and I told him with a couple swear words thrown in that I would NEVER fence him again if he hit me hard one more time. Later on, I went to the ear doctor, and from the hit he gave me I had lost some hearing in my ear.

I'm pretty willing to fence newbies and give advice, just not for long periods of time. Usually when I'm in practice I'm fencing pretty seriously and want to get some good practice partners for my level and not take up most of the time doing something that doesn't also help me any.

[daeceg]

There is one person in my club. I'm tired of fencing him...he's done it longer than me, though he's considerably worse. During drills he refuses to follow the drill and just wants to free fence. In bouts, he's sloppy, hits HARD, and his whole technique is to swipe his blade back and forth in front of him. Last time we bouted, he fleched and made hard contact, rocking me back and injuring my leg. A later bout he did the same thing to another guy, knocking him off the strip.

Now I just avoid him as much as possible.

[Katman]

I never have, but then again I'm not terribly competitive. I can see why someone would refuse to fence another as far as fencing growth is concerned.

At this point I would only refuse to fence someone if I feared injury. I would tell them exactly why.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

i just carefully avoid a member of my team, and he lets me do it....

you see, he does both fencing and martial arts. and he's really really bad at fencing, because he cannot for the life of him separate the two of them, and he will not pick one. Also, he decided to fence left-handed, even though he's right handed, and he simply does not have the fine motor control you need in sabre to do a nice, clean, effective and yet gentle.... cut.

{sabre} He preps in the traditional 'draw your arm back' style. but that's not the real problem. he also rotates the blade quickly in a circle so that the blade itself gains as much momentum as possible before hitting you. It's not that I can't beat him. I could do 5 straight attacks in a row, and the bout would be 5-0. It's just i don't like getting hurt for no apparent reason.

because i CANNOT learn anything from him. he refuses to go to tournaments, so he won't get his *** handed to him on a platter creating momentum to change. He does not actually fence like a fencer. He fences like a martial artist who picked up a fencing weapon for the first time and hasn't had a lesson yet.

if i was getting hurt because someone just hit heavy and i didn't parry--- fine. if i was getting hurt because i was stupid--- fine. As long as i'm learning something-- that's great. I'm not one of those girls who stops fencing before Prom so i won't have bruises. {in fact, i have a very low opinion of those fencers.... but i shant go into that here...} But i refuse to get hurt for no purpose at all.

[Borrissey]

At one club, I had three people decline my invitation to fence. Although I am a beginner, I don't slap the blade and I have an idea of what I am doing. It seems those fencers didn't want to stoop to my level to fence me.

[Inquartata]

Never done it. Probably never will.

[mtarascio]

It is proper fencing etiquette to fence with a person if asked. One must remember back when they were a beginner. Fencing a beginner does not have to take a lot of time.

If someone in the club is fencing in a dangerous manner. Hits too hard, Out of control, etc. then it definetely is ok to tell them that you refuse to fence with them. I'd go one step further and mention this to the coach.

As a coach, i've told fencers that they would not be allowed to bout unless they changed their way of fencing. Some have made adjustments and others have left the club. I will not allow dangerous fencing in my club.

[suregrip]

When my son was a beginner, he was rebuffed by the older, more experienced crowd who didn't want to waste their time with him. He worked hard over the years, gained equal footing with the more experienced fencers, and surpassed some of them. When this more experienced group suddenly found him acceptable to fence, he refused, and fenced the experienced fencers who were kind to him. He had no problem explaining why either. Most of the original crowd is gone - either off to college or off to a career.

Refusing to fence someone because they are new and inexperienced can backfire, as it did in this case. I'm not talking about fencers who injure others, or fencers who have safety issues......I'm talking about the people who don't want to 'waste their time' with a beginner. Just realize that the beginner may probably stay with the club, and one day turn out to be a contender.

To this day, my son has NEVER refused to fence a beginner, even a young child. I've seen him standing patiently on the strip, allowing a youngster to hit him, while giving advice to the child.

[scarlet_woman156k]

There are only two people I won't fence. And that is because they have either been inconsiderate to me as a fencer or because of a serious injury they denied they caused. Otherwise, I will fence anyone...beginner or experienced. Doesn't matter to me, everyone deserves equal time during practice. I take each individual fencer and assess them for what I can work on. It helps also to strengthen my ability to properly focus and be able to shift gears quickly.

[fencerontheline]

I'll fence almost everyone- I got better because strong people fenced me, and now- there's almost a sense of recompensation- the idea that you give back to the sport what you once took from others.
Also, a begginer makes for good target practice when you want to be done quickly- or for a well-thought out very clean bout when you have more time.
To be honest- there have been almost no dangerous fencers at any of my clubs- so it's never really been an issue. When I come across one- I'll fence them once, give them advise on how to change and then watch them fence. If they don't make an active effort to change-then I'll politely step-down when they come up to fence.

[fence1848]

I try to always fence against a beginner who asks for a couple of reasons:

1. One of the mental hurdles many beginners have to get over is that of asking someone to fence. They should do this as much as possible, and I like to encourage it with positive results.

2. When I was a beginner, I asked some experienced fencers to fence with me and they accepted. I got more out of those bouts than I did out of most group classes. They can't learn good fencing without seeing good fencing firsthand.

3. Have confidence that if you work with them enough, they will get better.

The only person I refused to fence was because he has been fencing as long as I have but is still rougher than most beginners I come across. He's not going to see me as an instructor because we've both been fencing as long, and he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Wow. I'm thrilled to realize that, recreational fencer that I am, the great Achilleus would cross blades with me as a drill partner.

I'm serious, A. I know we've had our differences, but if you're ever in the Orange Coast Division area I hope you look me up. I could learn a lot from you, and wouldn't mind in the least being the target for whatever you want to practice.

As to the issue of refusing to fence someone, I'm in the position of being the person who's been turned down. There's this one guy in our club who is one of those fairly brutal fencers, a lot of speed and strength but poorish technique, very aggressive and wins a fair number of bouts by sheer brute force. Well, I don't want to bout with him, but I did ask him once to be a drill partner because I was doing the wall drill to improve my parry-riposte speed and I figured he'd be a good person to do the attacking. (Also, frankly, because I felt a bit sorry for him. A number of people in the club don't want to have much to do with him because of his poorish social skills, and I wanted to reach out a bit.)

So I asked him, and he turned me down. He didn't want to do drills, or help someone else do drills: "I want to fence," he says, by which he means, "I want to bout", because that's mostly all he wants to do. To him, "fencing" = "bouting", not practicing or learning. I've never asked him since.

I myself will fence anyone who asks me, especially those shy little newbies. I may not be a great fencer--in fact, I'm not really very good yet--but I'll give it a shot with anyone. And I'm a good drill partner (listening, Achilleus? )--in fact, my coach sometimes entrusts newbies to me for drills because he knows I'll be patient and encouraging with them.

[CarlKnoch]

I stopped fencing someone because of the incredible bruises I got from the attempted flicks he would throw. That was after putting up with it for a long while. It wasn't a happy time, and that's to bad as he's a nice guy with a love for fencing that is helping the sport in his area.

I haven't fenced him in a long time, but doubt that there would be a problem if I did fence him now.

Now when it comes to beginners, I would fence any of them. It's hard to fence beginners when they don't respond properly, but it's a great way to hone your reactions, and to trust your attacks even when you see the crazy counter coming at you. I don't like fencing people who don't have the concept of ROW, but the only way for them to learn is to fence and have it explained. I'll never tell a beginner no.
C

[prittieinpink]

the only reason i have refused to fence for is just plainly being too tired. as for the people who hit hard and what not, i just try to avoid having to fence them, but usually do anyways if asked. people like this should really be told about how hard they are hitting and that its a negative thing. the problem wont go away if everyone refuses to fence them....

[Peach]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

The top ten reasons I've heard for not wanting to fence people are:
- snip -

Some more off the top of my head:

11. I am going to my most important tournament of the year in a couple of weeks and need to fence (a) other veterans (b) other women (c) other U-19s (d) somebody who doesn't make me do bad actions just because they score on him.

12. I'm fencing at high intensity because my most important tournament of the year is next week and I know how much it annoys you when I (a) yell (b) beat you 5-0

13. I'm leaving for the most important tournament of my year tomorrow and my coach won't let me fence any more tonight because I finally got it right in my last bout.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by prittieinpink

as for the people who hit hard and what not, i just try to avoid having to fence them, but usually do anyways if asked. people like this should really be told about how hard they are hitting and that its a negative thing. the problem wont go away if everyone refuses to fence them....

Good idea. Unhappily, at least some of them don't modify their behavior even when its negative aspects have been pointed out to them.