Analyzing a scenrio using logic

[Hurriranger]

ok scenrio:

before we go, Fencer A and fencer B's speed and lunging range are the same. fencer A and fencer B come to en guarde. both straightens arm and moves foward. both lunges and hits with no attemts at searching for the blade. in the end, the centre of fencer B's body is about half a metre over the middle of the piste while fencer A is further back in his half.

would this be attack together or Fencer B's because using logic, he must have started his attack first.

[dunastor]

With the same kind of logic you could say that because B is further down the piste, he has moved more, therefore made another step, therefore was in prep, and therefore it's a point for A

Refereeing fencing isn't about logic, it's about seeing the actions.

[prototoast]

In most cases it shouldn't matter where they are, however I've seen similar things like this where one fencers isn't moving as far with attacks together, and gradually it ends up shifting farther and farther to one side until eventually one person has not left the en guarde line--at that point I'd call it attack, counterattack.

[Inquartata]

Simultaneous. Just because the "lunging range" of both fencers is equal doesn't mean that both will use, or see the need to use, that range to its uttermost. B may very well have lunged harder or faster than A, but all that matters is that A attacks at the same time, even if less forcefully. From the remainder of your explanation of the action that seems to be the case.

I will refrain from constructing an argument based on the fact that you did not specify that they came to guard at the en guard lines and thus the difference in distance from the center may be meaningless...

[FoilyGeezer]

Most likely call for me based on the info? Simultaneous.

Technically the relative size of one fencer's advance compared to the other's, or even body position after the hit shouldn't enter into the equation. It isn't a question of how far or fast one advances in this case, merely whether there was an advance preceding the lunge in both cases. It isn't a footrace down the strip...it's about satisfying the timing and conditions to establish ROW, and hitting your opponent.

Watch many of the better fencers and you'll see that their footwork is tiny (mostly) and precise. One of the fallacies most novice fencers have is that in order to move your opponent back down the strip quickly, you have to take big steps. Once you're committed to a step, you've become predictable. Bigger steps = Greater predictability.

One of the principles I've been trying to work on lately is that of dynamic distance; how to keep track of where "the zone" is when both you and your opponent are in motion at the same time. Again, novice fencers tend to want to move into the zone, set up and execute, whereas better fencers tend to only "visit" the zone as they're executing. In the case you give it seems like they were both aware of where the zone was and successfully executed their tactic.

[haroldbuck]

Originally Posted by Hurriranger

ok scenrio:

before we go, Fencer A and fencer B's speed and lunging range are the same. fencer A and fencer B come to en guarde. both straightens arm and moves foward. both lunges and hits with no attemts at searching for the blade. in the end, the centre of fencer B's body is about half a metre over the middle of the piste while fencer A is further back in his half.

would this be attack together or Fencer B's because using logic, he must have started his attack first.

Bad premise. How do you know their speeds are the same? Even if you know their TOP speeds are the same, that does not obligate both of them to fence at their top speed in order to garner right of way.

As Maestro Richards used to tell us at Coaches College, there's a difference between going faster and going sooner. Right of way is determined much more by who begins extending sooner, not who's moving faster.

[daeceg]

Agreed. No time.

Think about it like this:
Fencer A attacks and is parried.
Fencer B immediately starts a riposte, but Fencer A presses his attack and hits first.

ROW still goes to fencer B.

[noodle]

can't penalize someone for being short (or tall). if the attacks start at the same time, distance is irrelavent. simul.