New to fencing and the board

[yoganut]

Hi:

I'm relatively new to fencing (since Jan 04) and I'm also quite old to start, 37.
What started out as "that looks like fun, I think I'll try that" is becoming an enjoyable obsession.

My 'problem' is that I really would like to progress as far as I can go, but the thought of tournaments are scary. Although I've been told I am a good defender, I get winded very easily - what are good workouts to help get me in shape? Please - no jogging - anything but that!
Am I a little old to be harboring ambitions? I've been told most champion fencers learn fencing when they are very young.
Also I belong to a fencing club in Ohio. Tonight at club, my instructor had bouts of 5 points each. For the first time ever, he had me fence two different women back to back (they were both newbies). Naturally I beat them 5-3 and 5-2, but I hardly feel it was a true victory as I've been in the club for 6 months (although not particularly regularly up until now).
Is this a sign that I'm progressing? That my instructor had me fence two girls without a break inbetween? (By the way he knows I get winded - its difficult not to notice!)

Thanks for your time, all.

[mrbiggs]

Coupla thangs:
1. Well, we already had a post on how young you have to start fencing to harbor ambitions, but you can do well at any age. Go for it.
2. Jog to get in shape. Running and fencing may seem disconnected, but they're not. Even a little bit every day will help somewhat.
3. Practice all the time. If you're just starting to fence 10 touches in a row, you're probably not ready for a tournament (with 15 touch bouts), but then again, I haven't seen you fence. Go to your club often and fence some of the other people there, the good ones and the bad ones. Experience is very important in fencing, especially in your first few years.
4. If you're defensive, and you get winded easily, epee is probably the best weapon for you, although that's your choice to make.

[oiuyt]

37 is definitely not too old to start. It's not even too old to start and get good.

As for exercises to help with stamina, anything aerobic will help. If you don't like jogging try biking. Or swimming. Or the eliptical at the gym. Or.... You get the idea.

Tournaments don't have to be scary. Think of them as just another day of fencing but one where you get to meet new people. This can be helped even further if you select the correct tournaments. Lower level tournaments tend to have fewer hypercompetitive people that'll blow you away and barely slow down enough to notice. You're still a few years young for it, but once you're 40+ you become eligible for veterens events which tend to have a significantly higher degree of conviviality (not that there aren't hypercompetitive vets, but they tend to be hypercompetitive and then have a good time when off strip where as the 17-year-olds stay hyp'd up after the bout's over).

Most of all keep enjoying fencing. That's what should matter at any age and any ability level.

Welcome to the sport and the board.

-B :)

[CarlKnoch]

You're not old to get started. I was 35 when I started. Welcome and have fun.

[Peach]

I started at 43, and I've had some success, though it's been nearly ten years now so I've started seeing some fall-off in that ol' youthful raw power in the last couple of years .

I used to get winded easily, but it wasn't for lack of conditioning--I have exercise asthma. I assume that's not your problem, but if it is, I recommend a visit to a doctor. Since I started on a regimen of daily antihistamine, nasal spray, air filter in bedroom and cats out of the bedroom, I haven't had to use my inhaler for fencing for a couple of years.

Jogging is hard on the joints--I had to give it up a couple of years ago after 25 years of it--but you can use an elliptical trainer, go for bike rides, or even jump rope. Fencing itself isn't great aerobic training. It's more like intervals, even epee.

Fencing is rewarding because you never stop learning new things, and it takes as long to master as you have time.

[Inquartata]

Running is both boring and physically hard on the body---all that pounding. You run the risk of dog attack, insect attack, being hit by cars. Avoid at all costs.

Some people swear by swimming---a total-body no-impact workout. I have a stationary bike at home. I can watch TV while using it, I can have drinks at hand and the fan going, and I'm a few steps from the bathroom, plus it's far easier on the knees. You only need to get your pulse rate to a certain point, and it doesn't much matter how it gets there.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Hi:

I'm relatively new to fencing (since Jan 04) and I'm also quite old to start, 37.

O callow youth! I was 47!

What started out as "that looks like fun, I think I'll try that" is becoming an enjoyable obsession.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. And the jacket, and the knickers, and the breastplate . . .

I get winded very easily - what are good workouts to help get me in shape? Please - no jogging - anything but that!

Try a rowing machine. It's a great overall body workout, uses all the muscle groups, is easy on the joints, and you can make it as aerobic as you like by varying speed and flywheel resistance. Strength training is also a good idea.

Am I a little old to be harboring ambitions?

Depends on what they are. Mine is to become the best fencer I can, given my age and other challenges. Recognize, however, that your chances of entering the elite ranks are not good. (A status which you share with most other fencers, by the way. That's why the elite ranks are, well, elite!)

For the first time ever, he had me fence two different women back to back (they were both newbies). Naturally I beat them 5-3 and 5-2, but I hardly feel it was a true victory as I've been in the club for 6 months (although not particularly regularly up until now).

At night, all cats are gray. Winning is winning. I finally had a breakthrough this spring--after more than three years of practice--when I won two successive bouts in a tournament against much less experienced (but much younger) fencers. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Is this a sign that I'm progressing? That my instructor had me fence two girls without a break in between?

Yes. At the tournament I mentioned, I fenced several pool bouts in succession because others in the pool were engaged in direct elimination bouts in the Novice tournament that was being held concurrently. It made me feel good that I was able to do that!

Relax, have fun, enjoy it! That's what fencing is for!

[blue_falcon]

Hi:

I'm relatively new to fencing (since Jan 04) and I'm also quite old to start, 37.
What started out as "that looks like fun, I think I'll try that" is becoming an enjoyable obsession.

My 'problem' is that I really would like to progress as far as I can go, but the thought of tournaments are scary. Although I've been told I am a good defender, I get winded very easily - what are good workouts to help get me in shape? Please - no jogging - anything but that!
Am I a little old to be harboring ambitions? I've been told most champion fencers learn fencing when they are very young.
Also I belong to a fencing club in Ohio. Tonight at club, my instructor had bouts of 5 points each. For the first time ever, he had me fence two different women back to back (they were both newbies). Naturally I beat them 5-3 and 5-2, but I hardly feel it was a true victory as I've been in the club for 6 months (although not particularly regularly up until now).
Is this a sign that I'm progressing? That my instructor had me fence two girls without a break inbetween? (By the way he knows I get winded - its difficult not to notice!)

Thanks for your time, all.

Dude, worry not about all that. I started about a year before you did and am a few years younger than you -- a few but still in my thirties.

And yes, I know what you mean about getting winded. I tried out my first tournament last year and it was GREAT! Of course, I was about ready to die by the time the direct elimination round started but .....

Basically, I just started going to fencing more often per week and (I hope!) I've started to build up some (not a lot!) of stamina. You've been fencing, what? 6 months? I remember that, 6 months after I started fencing, I was still quite, ummmm, not very good when it came to stamina. It comes after a while -- like I said, just keep working at fencing. I used to go about twice a week for a few hours with some intense footwork and some intense fencing. And I won't kid you -- I was in PAIN the next day. But, it all paid off (or it's still paying off!).

As for progressing -- I'm not too worried. Personally, I'm not too worried about being in the elites -- I fence some pretty good people at my salle and, after watching them train, I realize that I don't have the time nor the inclination to do THAT much. I guess it's a matter of priorities -- I'd like to do better so I train but I'm not so crazy so that I'll train 5-6 days a week.

As for weapon -- I think someone here said that epee is probably your best bet. I'd agree -- not as much running around, not as much screaming (ears hurt, y'know?), and not as much .... machismo and ego. Besides, by the time you hit your thirties, you're a tad more wily (we hope!) than the 20 year olds. And, as PJ O'Rourke said, age and guile beat youth, innocence, and a bad haircut any day! That being said, I've had my butt handed to me by 17 year olds who are not only wily but also fast!

Anyway, welcome to the magnificent obsession. And don't worry about them young whippersnappers. You can buy beer. They can't.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

First place, use your mind as your main weapon. Second place, dont jog, do sprints, run across a football field and try to get your best time. You want your running to be intense, not long. Trust me, the shorter you get your 100 yard sprints to. The better your fencing will get. Try to do 15 sprints every other day. Take a 30 second break between sprints, on your 5th and 10th sprint, take a 1 minute break. Try to chug 4 ounces of water or gatorade between each sprint. Make sure to stretch before hand. Every week, add another sprint. On the 15th sprint, you should be sweating pretty good. For added intensity, do 15 pushups and 15 situps after you get to the end of the field. For even more intensity, dont run, do footwork across the football field. It will get you in the fencing mindset. Just try to do it as intense as your body can handle. When you hit muscle failure, hang it up, sleep two nights, and try it again. It may take a while to get up to 15, but if you start now, you will get there all the sooner. This is a sure way to get mean and lean. Drink lots of water, and eat lots of veggies and low fat meat to gain muscle. Eat carrots for eyesight. Carb load before a bout. Atkins it crap for fencers. Forget the elavator, do those stairs! Start doing punches while holding some light weights. Thats all I have too say about that.

As a former fat kid, I must say, Good luck!

[Peach]

Remember the preceding advice is given by a very young person and probably unusable by anyone over 30 . . .

[jeff]

Remember the preceding advice is given by a very young person and probably unusable by anyone over 30 . . .

Gee, Peach - when we were young, wasn't the line "don't trust anyone over 30"?!?

yoganut - welcome to fencing! Don't place artificial constraints on what you can or cannot do - just train and fence and do the best you can. There's no reason based on your age that you can't have good results in competition.

For your conditioning, in addition to the exercises already suggested, I recommend you do lots of footwork and fence as long bouts as you can arrange. Have your coach give you footwork regimens you can practice between club sessions (eg: "Advance, retreat, advance, advance, lunge, recover, retreat" repeat, rinse). Work hard on that and your endurance should increase. It takes time and work, but it comes.

[Peach]

I realized a while ago that saying was based on the tiresome common sense people of that age seemed to have acquired . . . not that I have any, mind you.

[Thorin]

My 'problem' is that I really would like to progress as far as I can go, but the thought of tournaments are scary. Although I've been told I am a good defender, I get winded very easily - what are good workouts to help get me in shape? Please - no jogging - anything but that!

Fence when you're tried, gotta push those limits. Ignoring your body's phsical fatigue is part of that all-important mental focus it takes to really succeed.

Strengthening & keeping up on flexibility in the key muscle areas (legs, stomach & back and arms) means you'll use less energy overall to do the same things.

[Elemental]

Another good exercise for stamina that is a good alternative for jogging is swimming. Swimming wont build up specific fencing muscles the same way that jogging would, the benifits to your stamina and cardio system would be the same if not better. Plus, swimming works the upper body more than jogging.

Another good training routine that I find works is Pilates (don't laugh). I tried my roommates Pilates workout DVD for a few days and the results to my posture and overall energy was quite noticable. Yoga would be good too but I am guessing by your screen name that you may already know that.

[EpeeDon]

Age is not a problem. Conditioning may be. sprints are good as is fencing a lot. I was 38 when I started in 1976. Earned a "C" rating in epee in 1982. Quit fencing for 20 years then fenced for a year and earned a "B" in 2003 in my first open tournament. I'm about to turn 66 and still reasonably competitive.
Cheers!

[Zelda]

Another good training routine that I find works is Pilates (don't laugh). I tried my roommates Pilates workout DVD for a few days and the results to my posture and overall energy was quite noticable..

Pilates is great for balance, stability and core movement - though I have found working wtih an instructor is more benificial then DVD's or videos. Since I sarted Pilates my balance during movement and esp lunges is much better, and I feel more confident in my feet.

[ShadowHuntr]

Running is both boring and physically hard on the body---all that pounding. You run the risk of dog attack, insect attack, being hit by cars. Avoid at all costs.

Some people swear by swimming---a total-body no-impact workout. I have a stationary bike at home. I can watch TV while using it, I can have drinks at hand and the fan going, and I'm a few steps from the bathroom, plus it's far easier on the knees. You only need to get your pulse rate to a certain point, and it doesn't much matter how it gets there.

bike riding is fine, but the "risks" you speak of are hardly likely. when you ride a bike, you arent conditioning your arms at all. you know as well as i do, when you get tired that weapon (i mainly feel it the most in epee) starts to burn. while the EASY fix would be to work out the arms by lifting weights that isnt always everything. I would have to see unless you have serious knee problems (which seems to be a common thread in fencers) that running is the best medicine for endurance. I can guarentee you, even bikers in the tour de france run ALOT. also, running exposes you to the elements and inclines etc.

[MikeHarm]

go out to a club and dance, thats great exercise and fun too.

[Inquartata]

bike riding is fine, but the "risks" you speak of are hardly likely.

Hence the smily. Though the elements do play a role. I can ride my stationary bike in air-conditioned comfort, and my breathing and heart rate get just as elevated as those of the guy outside jogging in the 106 degree heat...

when you ride a bike, you arent conditioning your arms at all.

However, Portnoy's, er, I mean Yoganut's Complaint was that he gets winded easily. It's cardiovascular conditioning he's looking for, so arm toning doesn't really enter into it. ( And for that matter running doesn't do much for your arms, either. )

you know as well as i do, when you get tired that weapon (i mainly feel it the most in epee) starts to burn.

I guess I really don't know that as well as you do, though, because I fence sabre! I've never been tired enough to notice the weapon's weight, I suppose because sabres are lighter than epees and we don't hold them at arm's length for extended periods. Plus I lift weights. But I take your point...

running is the best medicine for endurance.

I think I sense a devotee...

It isn't just knees, though. The jarring runners experience is more widespread than that. It affects the shins ( splints, anyone? ), the feet, the ankles, the hips....pretty much everything, no? I speak from experience---the Army adores running, or at least it used to when I was in it. I ran a lot, and hated every painful, tedious minute of it.

also, running exposes you to the elements and inclines etc.

It does, if you live in an area which has such things. There aren't many in my neighborhood.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Part of my weekly routine at the gym is arm curls with free weights (not very heavy--8 or 10 lbs). And it pays off. At a tournament in May, one of my twentysomething clubmates (a novice foilist) was complaining how sore her weapon arm was getting. I gave her a little massage and reassurance and realized that, hey--I'm old enough to be her mother, and my arm felt just fine.