The big issues

[fluidfencer]

Every time I have posted a response to a thread, the questions boil down to the same big issues, or variations of the big issues. For example, the endless "flick" discussions involve coaching, referees, rule-making, and the need for guidance and clarity. Because of this, I thought it would be best to get to the point.

I really struggle with the issues we face. Not only do we (the fencing community) not seem willing to address many important issues, but there is simply no guidance from the USFA. Very honestly, I don't know if I should blame them or not. I know fencing is a somewhat different sport, but everything seems to come down to clubs being left to fend for themselves.

Take referee training. This is one of the biggest problems we face. You can argue all you want, but the rules are fairly well defined and can be taught to most people. Fencing is not so different than many other sports in that regard. The reality is that if I want referees in our division, I have to contact someone qualified to provide instruction, and the two of us have to handle all the issues related to timing, content and cost. Then I have to contact other clubs to see if they are interested in participating. There is no plan to advance the issue in a strategic way. It leads to good programs staying good (those clubs that make the effort to improve), and weak programs staying weak (either from lack of support, knowledge, resources or combinations). Any growth that has occurred is the result of individual effort.

I had some strategic questions, and a couple that aren't so strategic in nature:

How do we develop new coaches (you must have that foundation to support growth)? The current program continues to improve, but it is completely passive with respect to development. There is no plan. That's like building a school in the Colorado mountains and hoping students will show up.

How do we develop new fencers (and related questions of when to do it, and whether we even want to)? I don't think I could begin to address that question here, but there is absolutely no clear voice within the USFA about how we should address it. If there is, it is not communicated to the people that need to know most, and there is no clear strategy regarding how it will be accomplished.

What sort of structure needs to be in place at USFA to support growth, and how will it be funded? How can that structure be more responsive to urgent needs? Does it need to have stronger decision-making authority for the leaders so things don't get committeed to the point of indecision? Do we need a broad voting body elected from the divisions (don't even think about telling me there is something like that already in place)? And none of that matters unless there is a means of getting current information to the people involved. I will make it a point to re-read all the organizational stuff from the USFA web site, but that doesn't change the fact that clubs are basically on our own in fencing, and that is not the case with other sports. I am also going to look at swimming and some others sports. I am guessing that the USFA tries to do the same thing, but the level of support from the USFA has not changed in the 11 years I have been involved.

A club mentoring program sure would make sense. For goodness sake, ask for help from the divisions.

Why can't there be a concise, understandable qualifying path for competitors? USFA leadership MUST know what would be best... I absolutely believe that. They must have the will to make changes that are best for the long-term future of the sport. Stop playing school principal.

Where is the promotional support? Clubs would be willing to pay for stuff like good promotional materials and CDs. Aren't there USFA members with talents that could be utilized?

Has the USFA ever considered a fundraising staff member - grants, sponsors, donations from members?


We (our club) are trying to do these things on our own but is enormously inefficient. Maybe more of American Fencing magazine can be devoted to practical club issues. There are a LOT of smart people involved in fencing. What do we need to do to tap into that?

Some of you are going to read this and start making excuses for why it can't be done... or quibble over little points... or argue over the conditions and priorities. Look squarely in the closest mirror, because you are the problem.

I have offered my suggestions, written articles, and taken two or more hours out of my day to address what I think is important in this email (which is certainly not all-inclusive). I also work my *** off (along with a number of critically important other people) to make our club successful. I only wish I could support my family and still dedicate the time needed to fencing.

This is not intended to be a criticism of the USFA. We all know that they work hard at an often thankless job, and aren't well paid. This also isn't a bunch of useless complaining/whining. I will be giving some serious thought to how I can help. I guess I consider this a call to action.

[noodle]

i haven't been fencing for nearly as long as most people here, but i'm in charge of a club and i feel i should address some of these issues.

Every time I have posted a response to a thread, the questions boil down to the same big issues, or variations of the big issues. For example, the endless "flick" discussions involve coaching, referees, rule-making, and the need for guidance and clarity. Because of this, I thought it would be best to get to the point.

there is a small set of underlying problems which cause the endless flick discussions, rule arguments, etc. everyone has to follow the rules of the FIE. we want to have our rules match the fie as best as possible so that we can produce international fencers like everyone else. so we can compete in world cups, championships, and the olypmics. because of this, we have to keep the core rules the same, ones that are tactical in nature (we can't change an attack to require a backflip to initiate, for example). we, as in the usfa, can't change the rules that the entire community are arguing about. only the fie can. as a subset of this problem, the official rules are in french. there will always be translation glitches. this can lead to misinterpretation.

I really struggle with the issues we face. Not only do we (the fencing community) not seem willing to address many important issues, but there is simply no guidance from the USFA. Very honestly, I don't know if I should blame them or not. I know fencing is a somewhat different sport, but everything seems to come down to clubs being left to fend for themselves.

i feel the usfa is having trouble guiding itself. if you really think about it, look at all the things the usfa does. it doesn't bring in that much money (~14000 fencers x membership fees isn't really all that much compared to the things the usfa does)

Take referee training. This is one of the biggest problems we face. You can argue all you want, but the rules are fairly well defined and can be taught to most people. Fencing is not so different than many other sports in that regard. The reality is that if I want referees in our division, I have to contact someone qualified to provide instruction, and the two of us have to handle all the issues related to timing, content and cost. Then I have to contact other clubs to see if they are interested in participating. There is no plan to advance the issue in a strategic way. It leads to good programs staying good (those clubs that make the effort to improve), and weak programs staying weak (either from lack of support, knowledge, resources or combinations). Any growth that has occurred is the result of individual effort.

indeed, the rules are teachable. the problem is that being a ref is a tedious, boring, thankless job for little pay. not many people want to really sacrifice the opportunity to fence in order to ref. there are a lot of individuals who do make the effort, though. in my opinion, and i have no idea how this would work, but i think that we would get more and higher quality refs if the usfa would pay more/better. make it worth someone's while to do so.

I had some strategic questions, and a couple that aren't so strategic in nature:

How do we develop new coaches (you must have that foundation to support growth)? The current program continues to improve, but it is completely passive with respect to development. There is no plan. That's like building a school in the Colorado mountains and hoping students will show up.

How do we develop new fencers (and related questions of when to do it, and whether we even want to)? I don't think I could begin to address that question here, but there is absolutely no clear voice within the USFA about how we should address it. If there is, it is not communicated to the people that need to know most, and there is no clear strategy regarding how it will be accomplished.

these are both very difficult questions to answer. i was a martial artist and instructor for a very long time. we had troubles keeping students and we didn't have many instructors. we got higher level students to help, but thats not really the same. i found out that this is pretty standard. but if you look at the martial arts community as a whole, you think "thats a lot of people." yeah, there's a lot of people and there's a higher interest in stuff like tkd and karate and kung fu. more than fencing. but individual schools still struggle just as much and in similar ways as a fencing school does.

the coaching problem stems from the fact that in order to be a good coach, people have to devote time to it. not many people when growing up say "i wanna be a fencing coach." there just aren't many people willing to stick it out in the face of adversity and borderline poverty.

the students problem partially stems from the fact that we have no real marketing and there's no real interest outside of huge cities. it also doesn't help that fencing costs a looot of $ to start and maintain. this discounts people that aren't well off that can still manage to do other things like play basketball or do martial arts.

A club mentoring program sure would make sense. For goodness sake, ask for help from the divisions.

we do get help from our division when we ask. i'm a member of the board. but some divisions can't provide much in the way of support for a new, struggling club.

Where is the promotional support? Clubs would be willing to pay for stuff like good promotional materials and CDs. Aren't there USFA members with talents that could be utilized?

i dunno, i've asked nike (my university sponsor), coke, adidas, some random companies like jones cola and such, etc etc for sports sponsorships for our program and all i get are coupons. nobody's interested in sponsoring a sport that nobody watches.

etc...

i think you've raised a lot of important underlying issues that need to be addressed before the sport can progress, but there are also others that you haven't raised. i'm not the one who can answer them or comment on them appropriately (i skipped points that i don't know how to answer or have no answer to), but i've thrown my $0.02 into the fray and hope for the best for our sport.

[Epee_Pox]

I don't see why it's the USFA's fault if a club doesn't promote itself to its community.

Here's a couple suggestions:
1) Make the sport-entry costs lower. The club should have its own weapons, jackets, masks, lames and cords for the use of its members. This reduces entry costs to the price of a club membership. As members stick with it, they'll buy their own stuff in their own time, instead of facing a daunting up-front cost.

2) Introduce a clear progression of achievement -- akin to martial arts colored belts -- so that each member not only learns skills in the proper order, but also has the satisfaction of accomplishment with the successful completion of each stage. Fencing instruction is remarkably informal, and often fails to provide either a logical, sequential pedagogy, or a sense of steady progress. Many fencers only see their progress in their competition ranking, which can plateau for years at a time. Without a sense of progress, or a goal of attainable achievement from structured instruction, many people will drift away from the sport. But if you give people a reason to stick with it, your club base will grow.

3) Advertise your club to the community. People think swords are cool. Lots of people would try it, if they knew it was around and wasn't too expensive.

4) With respect to referee training, that fits in with my second point. Say there's 10 levels of achievement (just picking a number at random here). Don't let anyone referee until they've reached level 6. And make improved comepetence as a referee one of the requirements for advancement through the remaining levels.

These seem perfectly easy, inexpensive, and doable. I'm sure the rest of you have even better ideas. The point is, it's not the USFA's fault if a club isn't doing it on its own. It's not like the USFA is preventing clubs from being successful.

[fluidfencer]

*BIG SIGH*

Of course clubs have to work to develop/advertise their club, but we can't make an intro to fencing CD, or can't afford to hire somone to give our flyers a professional look. I know we can do all that for ourselves. What I am talking about is LEADERSHIP. You don't lead by letting clubs wing it.

You want to have a belt-type progressive system? That's great, but that has nothing to do with my club or the USFA (unless you propose that everyone do that).

Your referee suggestion might work best for you... that's great! In our division it would be a disaster. What the USFA could do is identify parts of the country that need additional referees, communicate and make plans with clubs and divisions to get training, coordinate the calendar of people able to provide training, help set division goals/guidelines.

You may have missed my point. Our club can, and is, developing fencing in our community very effectively. We could do more with support (I'm not talking about financial). More importantly, there are hundreds of clubs that might not have a team of volunteers helping. There may be opportunities to establish fencing in certain cities where none exists, or is very underdeveloped.

This should be a proactive approach. I am all for good old self-determination, but it takes some planning to grow something. Maybe I should ask what your (collectively) expectations are.

I don't see why it's the USFA's fault if a club doesn't promote itself to its community.

Here's a couple suggestions:
1) Make the sport-entry costs lower. The club should have its own weapons, jackets, masks, lames and cords for the use of its members. This reduces entry costs to the price of a club membership. As members stick with it, they'll buy their own stuff in their own time, instead of facing a daunting up-front cost.

2) Introduce a clear progression of achievement -- akin to martial arts colored belts -- so that each member not only learns skills in the proper order, but also has the satisfaction of accomplishment with the successful completion of each stage. Fencing instruction is remarkably informal, and often fails to provide either a logical, sequential pedagogy, or a sense of steady progress. Many fencers only see their progress in their competition ranking, which can plateau for years at a time. Without a sense of progress, or a goal of attainable achievement from structured instruction, many people will drift away from the sport. But if you give people a reason to stick with it, your club base will grow.

3) Advertise your club to the community. People think swords are cool. Lots of people would try it, if they knew it was around and wasn't too expensive.

4) With respect to referee training, that fits in with my second point. Say there's 10 levels of achievement (just picking a number at random here). Don't let anyone referee until they've reached level 6. And make improved comepetence as a referee one of the requirements for advancement through the remaining levels.

These seem perfectly easy, inexpensive, and doable. I'm sure the rest of you have even better ideas. The point is, it's not the USFA's fault if a club isn't doing it on its own. It's not like the USFA is preventing clubs from being successful.

[oiuyt]

I also have to take exception to the assertion that the USFA isn't dealing with most, if not all, of the problems outlined in the first post on this thread.

Referee training: The FOC has made huge improvements in this regard over the past few years. We now have a systematic approach and a standardized procedure: take a standardized clinic, pass a written test, get observed refereeing, get rated. Continue to be observed as you improve and your rating is changed to reflect your current demonstrated ability level. Most of this is relatively new and has been increasingly phased in over the past 4-5 years. Are there still problems? Yes. It's hard to take the clinic if you're in an area with low fencing density (which tends to correlate with referee density and with high-level referee density, clinic givers tend to come from the ranks of high-level referees and travelling to locations without local clinic givers requires highish numbers of interested would-be referees). The USFA offering the clinics at Summer Nationals (two part clinics at the beginning and end of the week each year) is a step to help solve this issue. The growth here is NOT from individual effort but rather the concerted efforts of a number of individuals from across the country.

New Coaches: How much do you want the national body to do? Building a coach is a long, time-consuming process. The USFA sponsors (and subsidizes) the annual Coaches College program (except in summer-Olympic years when the OTC isn't available). The USFA sponsors (and subsidizes) local coaching clinics, including paying for travel for some great coaching instructors. Programs are available.

How do we develop new fencers: At the national level the USFA concentrates on elite and near-elite development. Should the USFA be responsible for establishing national training programs for recreational fencers? Perhaps. The BFA (Britain) has some sort of level system with development charts. Does it help? I don't know. Do we do better with a more varied approach depending on the background of the individual local coaches? Perhaps. The USFA does run clinics and camps for national-level development at a variety of age-levels. The national coaches (some more than others) do work to develop fencers and help others do so. The USFA publishes various things such as John Heil's sports psychology work related to fencers and how to improve one's mental game.

The USFA publishes a CD each year with various forms and other assorted goodies to help clubs. They send out requests several times a year begging for additional information to distribute. If something works well for your club, write it up and submit it so the USFA can pass it along to other interested clubs. Creating content is not easy, and the local clubs are going to be in the best position to say what works best for local clubs. If they aren't willing to put in the work to present the information in a way that's useful for other clubs, the USFA can't distribute it.

I read a lot of claims on this board that the USFA is a monolithic structure that keeps power in the hands of a special few. Guess what, those few are mostly the few that are willing to spend the effort to try to be a part of the process. It's trivial to become a part of the local leadership in most divisions. While I feel that the USFA congress has little direct power (mostly the indirect influence from being able to elect 4 BoD members annually), it's trivial to become a member. From my experience it isn't much harder to become a part of the leadership at the sectional level. If you're willing to work at it you can become a part of the national structure. If you just complain about how the little guy is shut out then you're unlikely to ever be in a position to bring the types of changes that you're interested in making. Get involved. It's the people that are invovled and putting in the time that get to make the decisions. Hopefully they listen to the input from those who are unwilling or unable to put in the extra time.

Why can't there be a concise, understandable qualifying path for competitors? USFA leadership MUST know what would be best... I absolutely believe that. They must have the will to make changes that are best for the long-term future of the sport. Stop playing school principal.

What? First of all, the qualifying path is fairly well laid out in the documents available on the USFA website. Maybe I'm weird (actually I know I am in many respects, but...) but I don't remember having problems understanding it, even when I first started paying attention.

I have no clue where the school principal comment is coming from. I don't even understand the implication in this context to be able to agree or disagree. Care to clarify?

Promotional materials: Yes, clearly it could be useful if the materials available on the annually-released (newish, it's been available the past 2 years, another improvement that the USFA has added and is building on for the future) were more extensive and higher quality. Perhaps the USFA should spend money for more template documents. That stuff doesn't come cheap, and, in my opinion, the stuff that I've seen the USFA get hasn't been particularly useful. For those that have seen it the "Because it's Time" promotional video is a great example of an effort along these lines that wasn't very effective. Most of the efforts at the national level currently are going towards things like the recent CSTV program which was exceptionally well done and can be used for promotional purposes. There are foil 101, epee 101, and sabre 101 segments separately available that were produced as a part of that effort and can be used to make fencing more accessible to neophytes. Regardless, the USFA has been trying to solve this problem. Hopefully more successfully in the future.

Perhaps I'm exactly the type of person you were referring to when you wrote: "Some of you are going to read this and start making excuses for why it can't be done... or quibble over little points... or argue over the conditions and priorities. Look squarely in the closest mirror, because you are the problem."

I don't feel that the above is quibbling. I think the USFA is already in the process of addressing nearly all of your points. Are these efforts perfect? No. Unlike you I HAVE seen a massive amount of improvement in my 10 years of fencing.

List the top 5 specific things that it would help if the USFA did/provided. Your initial list is too general. Example items that would fit in the type of list that I mean could be:
"template promotional fliers"
"referee clinics at each sectional championships"
"how-to guide for filing for 501(c)(3) status as a fencing club"
"parent's guide to fencing" (note: the USFA already provides this document, it's well worth reading whether or not one is a parent. I would suggest it for all new fencers or those who deal with them (anyone who runs a club))
"how-to guide for setting up overhead reel systems"
"basic armoring manual"

We can then discuss such lists. Some of the ideas provided will be better accomplished through some means other than the USFA (Rudy Volkman has already written a good basic armoring manual that is available through many fencing vendors. Sites such as fencing.net are already a good place to find information about things such as overhead reel systems as well as good places for guidance when something goes wrong or special circumstances require customization.). Some of the ideas may well be impractical ("send everyone who wants to go to a week-long fencing clinic in their choice of European country"). The best of the rest of the ideas can be forwarded along to the national office for consideration. By being more specific in your requests the rest of the community here is likely to be able to point out already existing solution to many of your requests. The remainder can be refined and submitted in a form more likely to be acted upon and more likely to be useful to a larger number of other people.

It's not like the USFA/national office/BoD wouldn't LOVE to do things that are likely to increase fencing or make it easier on the local clubs and divisions. Let's be constructive and come up with a list of the changes or additions that are most feasible.

-B :)

[Epee_Pox]

With respect to intro-to-fencing CD's, I've already posted before on how to make an effective instructional video on a shoestring. Why does it have to be the USFA that does it instead of you?

But I do understand your point. You want the USFA to be unifiying and strengthening force in american fencing. So far as I can tell, however, its job is primarily to run competitions. On not a lot of dough. If the USFA is going to do more, it's going to have to charge higher fees from that portion of fencers who are members. My point is, maybe the USFA isn't necessarily the people who should achieve your goals.

You want to establish fencing in places where it isn't already a significant presence. That's excellent. As I said, fencing has a ready-made market of people who like swords and might be willing to give it a go. So do the work, craft a basic business plan, and set up a club that will draw in members and won't lose too many of them. If it can't succeed, either the business is being run poorly (as an otherwise excellent club in NYC was), or the market isn't being addressed effectively (bad advertising), or the market simply isn't big enough to support a club in that location. None of this is the USFA's job. In fact, it is remarkable to expect the USFA to do any of this. If there's a market, the entrepreneur will build it, and they will come. If there's no market, why bother in the first place.

You want the USFA to coordinate training. That's excellent. A uniform series of skills that should be aquired, an order in which they are to be acquired, and a recommended pedagogy for teaching these skills is something that can be done. I suggested one of many possible ways of doing this. I'm sure you can think of better ways.

You want the USFA to provide leadership. Why? Why don't YOU provide leadership? You have recognized several things that need to be done. You have recognized that the USFA doesn't do them. So why don't YOU do it? If you're right, and it's something that needs doing, you might even make a buck or two.

[Schiavona]

This is a very important thread, Fluidfencer! I would like you to clairfiy some things for me though. Besides the promotional material, what 'support' do want the USFA to give your club? I've been involved in fencing for about 25 years now and the USFA has come a long way in the last 15 years. Ten years ago the USFA membership was around 8,000 now it's around 17,000. If that's not growth, I don't know what is. This year the US has 14 fencers going to the Olympics, only 3 countries have more.

I've been an volunteer coach for 20 years. I would love to go to the coaches colleges or be certified by the USFCA, the sad truth is I can't take more than a single weekend off from work. Even if I was certified, it wouldn't bring in any more students.

As to referees, the FOC controls that and right now our Division can't afford a testing clinic. They used to allow the divisions to qualifiy low level directors, now that's gone away, we don't have any rated referees. The USFA has a clinic program that's great and low cost($100 I think), but if you have a USFA refreee clinic, you don't get a referee rating out of it, cause the FOC has jurisdiction.

Some of things you brought up are the jurisdiction of the USFA, the FOC or the USFCA. Too bad all three couldn't be all under one 'roof'.

I don't know about other sports, but they seem to be really tied into the various college programs. There seems to be a disconnect between college fencing and the rest of fencing.

It would be nice if the Sections were able to do more things that only the USFA, FOC and the Coaches Association can do now.

I don't know how other sports handle the same type of problems we have, or what their national organizations are like. It would be interesting to find out.

[Schiavona]

The USFA publishes a CD each year with various forms and other assorted goodies to help clubs. They send out requests several times a year begging for additional information to distribute. If something works well for your club, write it up and submit it so the USFA can pass it along to other interested clubs. Creating content is not easy, and the local clubs are going to be in the best position to say what works best for local clubs. If they aren't willing to put in the work to present the information in a way that's useful for other clubs, the USFA can't distribute it.

List the top 5 specific things that it would help if the USFA did/provided. Your initial list is too general. Example items that would fit in the type of list that I mean could be:
"template promotional fliers"
"referee clinics at each sectional championships"
"how-to guide for filing for 501(c)(3) status as a fencing club"
"parent's guide to fencing" (note: the USFA already provides this document, it's well worth reading whether or not one is a parent. I would suggest it for all new fencers or those who deal with them (anyone who runs a club))
"how-to guide for setting up overhead reel systems"
"basic armoring manual"


-B

Great post, Oiuyot! I've never seen/heard of the CD you mentioned. Is it listed on the USFA website?

The USFA has mandated that the Sections have a FOC official at each sectionals, which is good, but our section(PNW) asked the USFA to waive this for us(Alaska) this year I believe this defeates the whole idea and sucks.

I've been looking at the Canadian Coaching program, it's very different than the USFA program. It's much less centralized, which would work better for my division(which is north of much of Canada ), but still a quality program. Maybe the USFA could adopt their program for the 'less fencer-dense areas'.

The other ideas are also great.

[The0ne]

The FOC works its butt off. . . They have done a ton of great stuff in the last couple of years, and the USFA works as hard as they can to support referees going to NACs. . . FOr which I am very appreciative!!!

[nahouw]

What? First of all, the qualifying path is fairly well laid out in the documents available on the USFA website. Maybe I'm weird (actually I know I am in many respects, but...) but I don't remember having problems understanding it, even when I first started paying attention.

No, I totally disagree -- maybe it is good that you were able to read it and understand it for your particular situation, but, as a competition organizer that has spent countless hours trying to explain the qualifying paths to new parents and why their child is dissallowed from competing in a specific tournament, it is very not clear at all (age limits, qualifying tournaments required, etc...). In addition, while explaining these paths to parents, even the other members of the division will have differing opinions -- take a look at the clarification that was sent to the divisions regarding the recent change to the Div II/III path -- we had to inform members of the change of their status AFTER we held the event.

A revamp of the qualification paths into a cohesive model with clarity is well in order. Take a look at sectionals when you get additional qualifiers to Div II -- in order to do that at sectionals, you need all divisions to report their divisional qualifiers in order to see who else is eligible by another means. For the U-19, who automatically qualify to Div II, that also affects your qualifiers in the Div II. I can go on about all the little quirks of this, but I don't have time to recall every little discussion that I ever had with a parent who was just innocently trying to understand.

[nahouw]

It would be nice if the Sections were able to do more things that only the USFA, FOC and the Coaches Association can do now.

I don't know how other sports handle the same type of problems we have, or what their national organizations are like. It would be interesting to find out.

How USTA (tennis) handles this is that they have paid regional offices (equivalent to our sections) -- the USFA membership is not at the point that logistically they can do this.

[fluidfencer]

I thought this might too much for this forum. Some replied asking for more specifics, but I think it requires less.

As I said at least twice in the original post, this is not intended to be USFA bashing by anyone... certainly not me. Like some of you, I have talked to Michael and others at length before. And I don't think he would mind in the least that I brought up these issues.

The overall point I was trying to make is difficult to put into words. I guess it came up as our club is going through a similar process, and asking the same questions of ourselves. I think Epee Pox came closest to understanding what I was trying to say. And I can relate to Schiavona because Alaska is not in the population/fencing concentrations on either coast.

Maybe the answer to my concerns is what Nahouw said about tennis have paid regional coordinators. The start of Regional Youth Circuits might be the first steps in that direction. I don't know about the other parts of the U.S., but our Section doesn't do anything but help with the Sectional tournament. I wish more could be done with that. Could the USFA provide the Sections with more direction? The same lack of communication is present from the Section to the Divisions.

Just for reference sake, here is some information taken from the USFA web site:

Mission: The mission of the USFA is to develop fencers to achieve international success and to administer and promote the sport in the USA.

Goals:
-earn international medals
-expand membership
-increase the number and quality of coaches and integrate them into the USFA
-increase public interest in fencing
-make the USFA an effective and efficient organization.

They also mentioned that a strategic planning group formed in 1992 and met again in 1995. I know that this is also an ongoing process and these goals shift in priority, and are discussed among the Executive Committee and others.

As we build our own program, we are trying to use all the things available through the USFA. We work hard, build awareness, support other clubs, train good fencers, soon will train a bunch of referees, etc.... But there is feeling of being on our own... not part of a bigger community. Maybe is has to do with where we are as a club, in terms of being a young club and in a section of the country that does not have an established history of fencing (and is very spread out).

Maybe it was a mistake to post such a big issue in a forum that is better suited to more specific issues, but I found it helpful. As a result, I am going to try and find out more about what Section leadership is like in other parts of the country.

Hey... do any of you remember an organization that was started about two years ago and faded away? I think it was called the National Association of Professional Fencing Clubs or something like that. It really started off well, sharing information among club organizers from around the country. I just remembered that. It seems like this kind of communication is part of what I am looking for as well.

The word "communication" seems to keep coming up as I struggle through this.

Might as well consider this thread dead. Thanks for your help. If something specific needs to be addressed, it would probably be best to start a new thread.

[oiuyt]

Great post, Oiuyot! I've never seen/heard of the CD you mentioned. Is it listed on the USFA website?

Not that I'm aware of. The USFA doesn't do all that good a job of advertising the support that they offer. It (2002-2003 version) was available in stacks at the registration table at Summer Nationals in Austin. This year's version was sent to clubs mid-seasonish (Dec-Feb?). I expect that as it becomes a regular thing that it will go out towards the beginning of each season.

If your club hasn't received it I'd suggest dropping a line to the national office and see if they have more copies available.

-B :)

[Schiavona]

As we build our own program, we are trying to use all the things available through the USFA. We work hard, build awareness, support other clubs, train good fencers, soon will train a bunch of referees, etc.... But there is feeling of being on our own... not part of a bigger community. Maybe is has to do with where we are as a club, in terms of being a young club and in a section of the country that does not have an established history of fencing (and is very spread out).

Are you sure you're not in my division? 'Cause your description sure sounds like us.

[reawl]

Why not start a fencing club/salle franchise? A McDonalds of the fencing world if you will. National advertisement cmapeigns would be a possibility at that point. Standards could easily be developed and communcated through the existing franchise channels. You would have employee training standaraized and required by the franchise, so coaches clinics and referee seminars would be frequent and easily accessible. Programs could be developed by a group that has access to a great wealth of fencing talent. You want a nationally unified sport? Then you have to nationally unify the operation of the clubs.

[Epee_Pox]

Your franchise idea is the best one yet. And you put the reasons for it very clearly and succinctly, kudos.

[reawl]

Now if only there were some Angels hanging around who wanted to fund my idea... *sigh*

[Epee_Pox]

Angels schmangels. Any bank or venture capitalist will finance it if you can make it profitable (better to use a bank, though -- banks just want interest, but vc wants controlling ownership).

[Army Fencer]

Not that I'm aware of. The USFA doesn't do all that good a job of advertising the support that they offer. It (2002-2003 version) was available in stacks at the registration table at Summer Nationals in Austin. This year's version was sent to clubs mid-seasonish (Dec-Feb?). I expect that as it becomes a regular thing that it will go out towards the beginning of each season.

If your club hasn't received it I'd suggest dropping a line to the national office and see if they have more copies available.

-B

Brad,

I'm curious about the support that the USFA extends to clubs. Is this support also extended to college teams? If not, that is an area that could be worked on. I know that many college teams do not fall under the USFA, but these are resources that can significantly the sport.

I know that when I was a Team Captain in college, we talked about making an armory manual from scatch, creating flyers to distribute at NACs, and things of that nature. It sounds like that's already being offered (or has the potential to be offered).

Fluid,

I don't think your post was a mistake. I think we are all struggling to some degree for the sake of our sport, and it is important to air those concerns and get a few questions answered. I think that having a staff member dedicated to PR--including fundraising, flyers, media, and the like--would be a good idea, if the USFA can afford it.

[reawl]

I know college clubs can be members of the usfa ($30 for an annual club membership). I don't know about varsity programs but then if you're varsity you've probably already got a fair amount of support already.

As for bank loans and VC's it seems like it'd be tough to get that kind of backing without much in the way of collateral and limited (one salle) experience. It'd be easier to sell if I had a wider range expertise (people like Westbrook and maybe people from larger fencing establishments).