Pommeling or Posting

[D'Artagnan1673]

Well, I gave pommeling a run last Saturday night. I find it to be very useful against fencers with poor distance, they run right into it. However, if the fencer realized what I was doing, and only one did, then I had more trouble as he kept his distance and worked on taking my blade before closing.

I experimented with just how far to pommel. The furthur back, naturally, the harder it is to control the weapon. I think that in a few months I'll start pommeling more often. For now, I think I've got enough on my plate as far as mastering proper bladework to throw another monkey wrench into the pile.

[MikeHarm]

I saw someone win an epee tourney I was in with just doing the posting trick a while back. The other folks defensive action was limited to just stop thrusts and he had an extra inch so they kept losing every touch to it. I think he was holding it farther back than the legal limit but it was goofy people being so focused on one means of defense that they wouldn't change it when it didn't work.

[veeco]

There is no limit as to how far back you can hold a French grip.

There is a limit on the length of the handle and pommel (20cm altogether IIRC).

But you can hold the pommel by pinching it with only 2 fingers and if you can fence like that then it's legal.

[veeco]

Actually your blade work is going to be much different when you pommel from when you don't, so if you want to try pommeling you might be better to keep trying it a little more.

As you mentionned, your game will be much more based on distance than if you were not. It will also allow you to get a finer feel for the tempo of the actions and the "rythm" of different fencers when they are on the strip.

As far as bladework, you need to work on your disengages, coupes, etc. There are all kinds of offensive and defensive ceding actions which will come in handy when posting.

Start with easy ones: One-Two's, coupes, doubles.

Good ones to start with:

One-Two:
Start with a seven-four.
Go one -> Seven under the hand. You can try with angulation and without. You have to find the right time to start it and the right distance.

And then two -> Four over your opponent's upper inside line. You can finish, depending on your opponent's response, straight, in angulation, or in opposition.

(Note this would work in a same handedness, situation, in a lefty-righty situtation you have to adapt. A good solution in that case is to try eight->six or six->four).

I'm just putting this out because I seem to remember you saying that your coach was a lefty so you may want to work different things with him.

If he is a decent coach he should be able to give you a lesson with either hand anyway.

Coupes:
Simple six->four or four->six. You need to find the right tempo here again. Start slow and build up speed to the apex at the lunge.
Here again, work on finishing the 2 tempos using different techniques, angulation, opposition, straight.

Doubles:
Pretty much any line can be worked on, even though most of the work will probably be done on four and six doubles. Again, here you need to start slow and finish fast. It's important to get the right timing for the preparation otherwise the other guy is not going to buy any of it. Again, finish either angulated, opposition, or straight.

You will notice that angulated is always in first, because it's my favorite. Some people prefer opposition, but me I am just a weak geek with no strength in my arms so I do angulate a lot.

Try to add a parry riposte into the mix at the end of the action, on your recovery, when you're starting to be more comfortable. You can build on that and add complexity, by mixing those 3 basic 2 tempo actions together. There is no limit...

That's pretty much my staple diet right there. I feel naked, I just told all my secrets to a bunch of people on the Internet. What was I thinking!!!!

<small>[ 08-19-2002, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]</small>

[edew]

I'll kill you this Thursday, if you bother to hang around long enough for me to fence you.

Unless you edit your post and remove all that helpful information.

<small>[ 08-19-2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: edew ]</small>

[veeco]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by edew:
<strong>I'll kill you this Thursday, if you bother to hang around long enough for me to fence you.

Unless you edit your post and remove all that helpful information.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Or unless you cannot force yourself to _hold_ that parry four you do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .

Damn foil fencers...

<small>[ 08-19-2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]</small>

[mfp]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>I experimented with just how far to pommel.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">If you aren't holding the grip all the way back so the pommel is in the center of the palm then you're not really "pommelling".

While some use the terms "posting" and "pommelling" interchangably, it might be clearer to refer to the placing of the hand further down on a grip as "posting", with the extreme case (pommel in the palm) as "pommelling".

Gaining an extra inch or two by posting is fairly easy. [Why anyone would insist on holding a "french" grip epee close to the guard and not taking that extra inch or two is a mystery to me]. However going to the extreme and pommelling is quite a different undertaking.

If you get good enough at it, then maybe you could "pommel" people using the technique (albeit somewhat differently than the original sense).

-----
Pommel \Pom"mel\, v. t. To beat soundly, as with the pommel of a sword

<small>[ 08-19-2002, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: mfp ]</small>

[JEC]

Veeco,
In a prior post you indicated that you
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">post maybe 90% of the time during a bout. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">How often do you pommel(verb)?

[veeco]

Well, I use post and pommel interchangably in my posts (no pun intended)

I am now trying to experiment a little more with being able to change the position of my hand on the grip which means that I am actually more like in a 60-40 system where I pommel maybe 60% of the time and the 40% other times I hold the weapon by the guard.

I have found that this makes it easier for me to do certain moves.

However when I was posting the sentence that you are refering to, I was actually fencing with the pommel in the palm of my hand practically all of the time. The only times I was not was when I was really at a loss for solutions and trying to employ brute force.

Now, this is the summer, there are no tournaments around, so I am trying new things. I may stay with the 90% pommeling next season or I may keep it the way I am experimenting right now. Don't know yet...

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

There is no rule that tells you how to hold a weapon as long as it is only with one hand. However, for best blade control, the handle (French grip, pistol grip, sabre grip) should be held with the known and established methods.

[MikeHarm]

You're right, there isn't any limit in the rules for how far you can hold it back. First I buy the 'you can't use wriststraps with a french grip in competition' nonsense and now I fall for the posting limit rumor too. I feel really gullible now. Next time I hear a new rule I'm going to find it in the rulebook before I believe it.