Bending the tang

[The0ne]

Hi all,

I just had a quick question about bending tangs on foils. . . I know that you put the blade in a vice, and then push the tang where you want it with a piece of pipe put over the tang, but I always end up just bending the tang into a curve, rather than having just one relatively sharp angle then the rest of the tang is straight. . . Is there any special process that you experienced armourers use??

Thanks,

-Isaiah

[telkanuru]

Actually, I've found it best to use the grip to bend it (ie. leave the grip on but loose and pull). Otherwise, try finding a smaller diameter pipe/pulling closer to the blade. Also, sharp movements rather than a constant force seems to work better.

[HillBilly]

I'll try those. . . Any really easy ways out there?

[Purple Fencer]

Actually it's the other way around...you put the TANG in the vise and pull on the blade...keeps the tang straight. Put it in so the shoulder of the blade is almost touching the side of the vise and pull from the forte.

[angriff]

Just wondering, what does bending the blade at the tang do for it? Most if not all of my blades have straight tangs.. they haven't had any visible effect, positive or negative, on my fencing. What would bending it at the tang accomplish?

[The0ne]

It helps a lot with flicking. . . Also it makes it so your point is on your opponent when you are en-garde in 6. . . I prefer to have a well bent tang, but i see I've been doing it backwards, with the blade in the vise, rather than the tang. Thanks Purple Fencer!!!

[Aeric]

I got a good blade from Uhlmann that did not come bent, and I thought it was great. So I got another, and realized that it had a pretty large bend.

It's definately harder to use the bent tang, since my direct thrusts and now missing my target. I'm used to lining up my arm into the attack and using point control to direct the tip, but now I have to line up my arm away from the target. I feel as though my attack distance has decreased and I cannot execute multiple disengages anymore, because my tip is never where I think.

If you're used to one kind, stick with it. I love the straight tangs.

[Purple Fencer]

It helps a lot with flicking. . . Also it makes it so your point is on your opponent when you are en-garde in 6. . . I prefer to have a well bent tang, but i see I've been doing it backwards, with the blade in the vise, rather than the tang. Thanks Purple Fencer!!!

No problem.

Bending the tang does help with flicks, but the main points are 1) as you said, when you position your hand in 6 the point is aimed at your opponent (that's why you bend it down and in), and 2) it helps with balance, because even a small bend will affect how the weapon pulls on your muscles.

[Tomas N]

Just be careful not to damage the threads when you put the tang in the vice. I just bend the tang over the edge of a chair.

I feel like a bent tang helps more in epee than in foil. Like TheOne, I like a bend that helps put the point on line (mine are usually pretty subtle, but still noticeable). If you use a french grip in epee, I find that a bend in the tang helps balance the blade when you pommel it.

Tomas

[angriff]

I feel like a bent tang helps more in epee than in foil. Like TheOne, I like a bend that helps put the point on line (mine are usually pretty subtle, but still noticeable). If you use a french grip in epee, I find that a bend in the tang helps balance the blade when you pommel it.

Tomas

I do use a french grip in epee.. does a bent tang help in angulated hits to the forearm? I'm right handed, so can you please advise me on which way to bend the tang? Thanks lots!!

[The0ne]

down and to the left.

[prototoast]

down and to the left.

Back, and to the left.

[gojujay]

I use a crescent wrench. Place the tang through the hole on the non-adjustable end. Adjust the blade so that you're just of the blade, on what would be the ricasso. The wrench and the blade should make a V angle at the point where you want to put the bend. Make sure the bend is going in the correct direction (have to do the adjusting twice, one for each axis) squeeze the wrench against the blade carefully. Adjust to your preferred angle on each axis (down-left, down-right...) Never had to many problems using this method. Never tried it on a maraging blade though. Anyone know how to adjust the grip on a maraging blade?

[neevel]

My Wiring Blades article in the Armory section includes a paragraph on bending the tang and has a photo of how I do it using the box end of big combo wrench.

You bend the tang on a maraging blade just like any other blade. Once in a while you will come across some blades where the tang isn't well-annealed and is very tough to been. Furthermore, on older-vintage Russian & Ukranian blades (Lammet- aka Dinamo, Fleche, etc.- was a chief source of these), the annealing process wasn't done properly and left the tang brittle and prone to snapping. This problem affected their maraging and carbon-steel blades alike. I've not seen it on recent blades.

I find that getting the right cant in the tang is one of the most important factors for making a weapon feel good in my hand. The contour of the oppositional (i.e., thumb) fold in the palm isn't level and straight back-- it runs downward and inward. By canting the tang to match that contour, you can keep your wrist in a neutral position while holding the blade.

Keep in mind that there is a limit in the rules to how far you can cant the tang. The assembled weapon needs to be able to pass through the cylindrical gabarit gauge (12 cm diameter x 15 cm depth for foil, 13.5 cm dia. x 15 cm for epee) with the blade parallel to (but not necessarily coaxial with) the axis of the cylinder. As a practical matter, you'll probably never have to worry about this unless you make a World Champs. or Olympic team, but the rule is there.

-Dave

[gojujay]

Neevel-

I heard somewhere that on some very stiff blades some armorers would cut the tang off, shape the angle and braze/weld the tang back on. Ever hear of this?

[aikijohn]

There is a nice little section (w/photos) re:epee assembly, including bending the tang, on the Leon Paul site:

http://www.leonpaul.com/shop/armoury...ee_armoruy.htm


You might want to check it out.

Cheers...

[neevel]

Neevel-

I heard somewhere that on some very stiff blades some armorers would cut the tang off, shape the angle and braze/weld the tang back on. Ever hear of this?

UK armorer Steve Jackson just mentioned this the other day over on FencingForum.com, in reference to someone who had cut their tang too short, and was using an already small grip which didn't leave much latitude for being cut-down in front or drilled out. He'd never actually seen it done, though, and neither have I.

-Dave

[Pepster]

What's the general opinion on a bent tang with a pistol grip?

I'm about to make up some new weapons, so I'm considering just leaving them straight.

-Pep
- My blade leans to one side, but I've been seeing a doctor about it.

[neevel]

As I said previously, I find the cant in the tang to be one of the most critical things to making a weapon feel "right" to me. Just go look at the weapons of experienced fencers-- almost all of them will have some kind of cant in the tang (at times an illegal degree of cant, but that's another matter).

-Dave

[angriff]

There is a nice little section (w/photos) re:epee assembly, including bending the tang, on the Leon Paul site:

http://www.leonpaul.com/shop/armoury...ee_armoruy.htm


You might want to check it out.

Cheers...

Thanks lots, that was just what I needed

My 100th post!!! yay!!!