Bending the tang

[gojujay]

There is a nice little section (w/photos) re:epee assembly, including bending the tang, on the Leon Paul site:

http://www.leonpaul.com/shop/armoury...ee_armoruy.htm


You might want to check it out.

Cheers...

Check who gets the credit. Thanks Neevel

[neevel]

Check who gets the credit. Thanks Neevel

Actually, it's just the section at the end about body cord maintenance that I wrote. The rest of that guide was done by Leon Paul staff. Don't want to steal credit due to others.

-Dave

[DHCJr]

Actually a lot of it came from another great US Armorer, the only Olympic Head Armorer, not from the country hosting the Olympics. I of course mean Ted Li. When you first go to the Armoury section, it list Ben Paul and Theodore Li.

[geezer]

Take a straight tanged French gripped foil and fit it comfortably in your hand, palm-up. Close your eyes, relax, come on Guard in Six. Look at the blade and note where it points. I predict it's Up and to the Right of "target". This is the reason right handers cant their tangs Down and to the Left...about 1" in each direction. I love it. It now feals so natural that I have trouble holding a real sword. I grew up with an Italian grip and now I can't even hold on to it.

non illigitimi carborundum

[Tomas N]

Well, given my experience at practice today, I should delete all my posts offering advice on how to bend the tang. We're in the middle of a couple of bouts. My opponent's blade (which belongs to me, but I hadn't used in quite some time) has its tang bent in the exact wrong direction, leading him to bend his blade in the wrong direction when he hit me. So between bouts, I disassemble the blade, bend the tang a bit, bend it a bit more, and then *snap*. Whoops. It breaks right where the tang begins below the blade. Should I chaulk this up to poor construction and go easy on myself? It was certainly good for a hearty chuckle by all involved, but replacing blades isn't cheap.

Tomas

[gojujay]

Well, given my experience at practice today, I should delete all my posts offering advice on how to bend the tang. We're in the middle of a couple of bouts. My opponent's blade (which belongs to me, but I hadn't used in quite some time) has its tang bent in the exact wrong direction, leading him to bend his blade in the wrong direction when he hit me. So between bouts, I disassemble the blade, bend the tang a bit, bend it a bit more, and then *snap*. Whoops. It breaks right where the tang begins below the blade. Should I chaulk this up to poor construction and go easy on myself? It was certainly good for a hearty chuckle by all involved, but replacing blades isn't cheap.

Tomas

Not poor construction. Metal can only be worked cold so often before it stresses and has a catastrophic failure (breaks). Bend a tang only in the same general direction and once it is set don't mess with it again lest the demon of metal fatigue strike. Consider it a lesson learned by the best teacher.

[elberto]

Not poor construction. Metal can only be worked cold so often before it stresses and has a catastrophic failure (breaks). Bend a tang only in the same general direction and once it is set don't mess with it again lest the demon of metal fatigue strike. Consider it a lesson learned by the best teacher.

True - sometimes the best teacher is experience... and the most expensive..

I try to keep some (some would say too many and why keep them!!) old blades which broke so they are no use to practice of the tangs - bending (and sometimes.. rebending...) and testing how much pressure to put on the blade or how many times they can be re-set before breaking..

I know - different blades or brands have different tensions of force required but the practice gives a good cheap way of learning.. In the club keep some of the old broken blades somewhere (and see how people look at you strangely!!? ) - not sure if it is better to expplain the reason or just say you are eccentric and can't bare to part with it even though they are useless (the blades not the person asking the silly question)

With the earlier post about being worried when you put the tang on the vice and can crush the thread - have a thread cutter for cleaning up and fixing the thread - just for those little emergencies...

[tom cr]

I've always had goodluck with bending non-maraging tangs- even vniti. I clamp the bade in a vice and with the handle on, push down the amount I want. I don't recommend the wrench method as it concentrates stress on one point.

For Leon Paul maraging- it wouldn't work. Having worked wrought iron(!), I decided to use an oxy-acetylene torch. I wrapped an inch above the tang with a wet rag to prevent heat travel and then I heated the area to a cherry color. Be careful to taper the heat and work slowly. Bend firmly but gently- 1x. Don't concentrate the heat in just one spot or you'll get stress fractures. Cool slowly -not in water, or oil. Let it cool in the air but be sure to prevent the heat from traveling up the blade. The idea is to preserve the temper in the blade, and soften the temper in the base and tang to avoid fractures. I have had good results- but this is not for everyone. Anyone else do this? It would help to know what kind of steel it is, and its properties- but that's for the professional!

[geezer]

Tom CR...I used to let it air cool, but it had "soft" results I didn't like. I was advised to quench the tang in oil, (I use a plastic quart off the shelf and leave it in for hours). I'm told the oil gives back carbon for hardness and strength. So far, so good.

non illigitimi carborundum

[neevel]

The oil shouldn't alter the composition of the steel at all. What makes quenching media different is their heat capacities, which will affect the rate at which the steel is cooled during the quench. The ideal quenching medium is going to be specific to the type of steel you're using, and what properties you want the finished product to have.

Swordsmith Kevin Cashen wrote an accessible, quick-n-dirty article on heat treatment for the novice here.

-Dave

[geezer]

An old timer blacksmith-machinest-metal worker I've known for years says that according to conventional wisdom, on the mega scale, this is technically true. (He also claims "conventional wisdom" is an oxymoron.) But on the mico scale one of the best ways of strengthening those first few tens of microns of surface steel is to drown those agitated, red hot molacules by stuffing those expanded crystal latices with a liberal dose of carbon, quickly delivered in this case, by oil. I'll admit I havent done any SEM study of the metal, but folk wisdom, anecdotal tales, and my own experience seem to deliver good results. (We're not talking "making" carbon steel here.)

non iligitimi carborundum

[Artisan]

An old timer blacksmith-machinest-metal worker I've known for years says....

He's refering to case hardening, and it can also be done by heating with a fuel rich flame from an oxy-acetylene torch. buuut... It will have no impact on the metal below the surface, and absolutely no effect on the "bending the tang" process. Additionally, the type of steel really matters when it comes to "accepting"carbon. There has to be room in the lattice.

[geezer]

You are correct, Sir.

non iligitimi carborundum