Which Grip is Best?

[Insipiens]

This is demonstrates why banning a handle by name would be stupid. To many, the picture you posted, would be called a Belgium. Uhlmann has a Belgium handle, but most looking at it would call it a Visconte.

It is funny how names divide us.

The Allstar Belgian handle appears to be the same as the Negrini Visconti handle. Being from the UK, what has been called an "English" grip is to me an "orthopaedic" handle. The Visconti from Negrini is what I think of as a pistol grip. Is the Russian handle the same as a zivkovic?
And what the hell are Hungarian and the others on the list? e.g. Spanish and Rambeau?

[DHCJr]

Zivkovic has many styles of handles, most with a 1 or 2 letter code.

Names are slippery, but I will give you what I consider the ones you question.

Take a Belguim, make it bigger, square off the bottom prongs and hook the top prong much like a Visconte and you have a Russian. But I have seen some that are closer to the German with the indentions filled in.

Take a Visconte and fill in the indentions and you have a Rambeau.

There are actually 2 Spanish. One that is considered illegal is a stick with one prong up and one down and a French pommell.

The other is like a pistol grip with the pistol part removed.

You might check some of the sites, like AMFence.com for some of the pictures.

[davtsung]

The Allstar Belgian handle appears to be the same as the Negrini Visconti handle. Being from the UK, what has been called an "English" grip is to me an "orthopaedic" handle. The Visconti from Negrini is what I think of as a pistol grip. Is the Russian handle the same as a zivkovic?
And what the hell are Hungarian and the others on the list? e.g. Spanish and Rambeau?

The anatomical from Negrini/Schermasport is like a belgian, but ten times heavier than usual so they should really call it a German grip Never tried a zivkovic since I make it a point to not try equiptment I can't pronounce, though they do look interesting.....

[Pun]

I need a new grip, i want to try a pistol grip but i dont know what size to get. Can someone help me out. I dont think my hand is particularly large but my palm seems a little on the large side while my fingers are normal. i dont really have a problem sticking with my french (i just placed thrid in my first tornument with one(not a big tonry just a small inter-club one)) so i know i can use it. buti have held a belgian and a italain vistconti and they both felt ok but they were both kinda small. I dont know what size they were. my hand /glove size is 8.5".

Sorry this is a little off topic but I didnt think it was worht a new thread.

[mrbiggs]

I need a new grip, i want to try a pistol grip but i dont know what size to get. Can someone help me out. I dont think my hand is particularly large but my palm seems a little on the large side while my fingers are normal. i dont really have a problem sticking with my french (i just placed thrid in my first tornument with one(not a big tonry just a small inter-club one)) so i know i can use it. buti have held a belgian and a italain vistconti and they both felt ok but they were both kinda small. I dont know what size they were. my hand /glove size is 8.5".

Sorry this is a little off topic but I didnt think it was worht a new thread.

Just get a medium, probably. It doesn't matter THAT much if it's one size off.

But, if you can, browse the various equipment dealers for a size chart.

OR, even better, ask someone if you can hold their grip, and ask what size it is, and adjust accordingly. This is probably the best option.

[Insipiens]

Size of grip does make quite a difference with a pistol grip. I would recommend you use a small grip, but whatever you choose try to make sure you have held a foil with that grip first.

The reason for the smaller grip is that it does encourage you to use your fingers more - switching from french grip will probably make you more likely to make big motions just because the physical temptation to hold your foil in too tight a grip will come from the different grip.

There is another thread going with a discussion on this at the moment that I saw earlier today.(not everyone will agree with me )

[fence1848]

The reason for the smaller grip is that it does encourage you to use your fingers more - switching from french grip will probably make you more likely to make big motions just because the physical temptation to hold your foil in too tight a grip will come from the different grip.

I agree with you regarding smaller grips making you use your fingers more, but I disagree with you regarding french grips. I think the reason that the smaller grips make you use the fingers more is that the fingers are closer to the bell pad. Larger grips force your fingers to be farther away from the bell pad. However, because french grips to not have protrusions, you can still hold your fingers close to the bell bad. I actually think that the french grip forces you to make smaller movements than any pistol grip. I don't think the movements are as fast, but they are smaller.

[achilleus]

I agree with you regarding smaller grips making you use your fingers more, but I disagree with you regarding french grips. I think the reason that the smaller grips make you use the fingers more is that the fingers are closer to the bell pad. Larger grips force your fingers to be farther away from the bell pad. However, because french grips to not have protrusions, you can still hold your fingers close to the bell bad. I actually think that the french grip forces you to make smaller movements than any pistol grip. I don't think the movements are as fast, but they are smaller.

The length isn't the biggest factor. Small grips are thinner, forcing one to grip with the fingers, and not the palm. In addition, the thinness provides for a much better feel of the blade.

Switching from a french to a pistol is difficult because the users generally switch to a large, comfortable grip because it's much more similar to the feel of a french. This, however, is dangerous. It just encourages the fencer to use his palm to grip with, and use his hand, not his fingers to manipulate the weapon.

[Larrison]

I'm going to add one more "no kidding?" comment here.

If someone is switching over from a French to a pistol grip, check how they are holding it! This sounds silly, but I've noticed a fair number of people when starting to use a pistol grip have "odd" ways of holding them. For example, I use a medium Belgium grip and I've noticed that folks trying it or similar grips hold it with the pommel between the 2nd and 3rd fingers -- which really restricts the movement of the blade in the vertical plane. I hold it with the pommel between the thumb and forefinger, which gives me good control and ability to make small motions in the vertical plane.

So.. no kidding, if someone is switching between grips -- check out how they are holding it.

[nctpbsoya]

I've ended up using Zivkovic grips; both the Z and K (for epee), after trying a Visconte style (came with my first epee; I had no idea what was what back then), then tried a German grip, but the wrist tang was much too long for me. The Zivlovic grips have more of a palm pad rather than a tang, which I like. I am considering trying a small Belgian and a Dos Santos because I've always liked a certain amount of finger tip control of my weapon as opposed to the "clinch" mode I've experienced with hardcore pistol grips.

Interesting thread...

Cheers...

Do you find that the Zivkovic gives you finger control? How does it compare with the Belgian? I've got a Visconti which I have heavily modified to allow better fingertip control, but I am still not satisfied with it, and am always looking for something better.

[aikijohn]

Do you find that the Zivkovic gives you finger control? How does it compare with the Belgian? I've got a Visconti which I have heavily modified to allow better fingertip control, but I am still not satisfied with it, and am always looking for something better.

Greetings, nctpbsoya... I've tried Belgians, both small and medium, but again found that I tended to "grip" too much. The Zivkovic "Z" has become my favorite grip for the reasons mentioned and I've found that my finger tip control is good on that grip. I have also tried the Dos Santos grip, which is more like a French with one lower and one upper finger hook, and I like that grip quite a bit too. You can get a Dos Santos grip from Triplette (they call it a "Spanish Offset"... pix on their website). It's kind of like looking for the Holy Grail, searching for the perfect grip, isn't it?

Good luck in your search...

[HDG]

Dos Santos = Cetrulo?

[esskreemr]

Greetings, nctpbsoya... I've tried Belgians, both small and medium, but again found that I tended to "grip" too much.

As you have learned from Bokken practice, gripping too hard can result in loss of control. I feel that the Belgian series allow me to grip just about right, not too loosely, not to tightly. As I said before though, I have medium-ish hands.

[VELISARIOS]

Pistol grip. The best!!!

[Epee Scherma]

For anyone on the search for a pistol grip, check http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14823

I will be selling these at my club too, so post asap.

These are belgian - american whatever the heck you'd like to call them.

[Barry Paul]

I am not sure if most fencers know the diference between the listed handles. Can any one display a picture and the corect name so we can all be sure we are voting for the right handle. ( I aways used a french grip) Barry

[The Armourer]

From the number of people registering a vote it looks like pics were not necessary - I suppose if you use a particular grip you don't need a pic to tell you what it is your using (or how would you buy it for example?)

[LUDICROUS]

I thiink my grip is a visconti, but I cant be sure.

*mental note to check that out*

[DHCJr]

From the number of people registering a vote it looks like pics were not necessary - I suppose if you use a particular grip you don't need a pic to tell you what it is your using (or how would you buy it for example?)

I'm afraid I have to agree with Barry. Maybe there are voting for what they think the handle is. For example, go to the Uhlmann web site and order a Belgium. The same grip on let us say on American Fencing site would be called a Visconte. If you wanted what is called a Belgium on the American Fencing site, but if you wanted to buy from Barry's shop, you would ask for a Crosse style. Another handle on those three shops have different names. German on American Fencing, Euro style on Leon Paul and Uhlmann on the Uhlmann site.

How do we know if each person voting had the same picture in their mind.

[LUDICROUS]

With all these conflicting names, why not just call it "pistol grip" and "french grip" ?

Call visconti, belgium etc a "variation"