if you've fenced for 47 years then i believe you...i mean, why would you say all this stuff if it wasn't so for you. but for me, i used the french grip for a while because i read evangelista's books and was gullible.. ..now, like i said earlier in this thread, i use russian and i think it works fine for me. my hand just feels secure. my disengages are tighter especially in epee and i don't feel the need to grip really hard like i did with the french.
I placed 5th in the US National Epee Championships in 1965, and 4th in 1968 using the French grip and was ranked in the US top ten in epee from 1965-1973. But my good friend Paul Pesthy won five US National Epee Championships using the pistol grip. So...the bottom line is fence with the grip which works best for you! And enjoy! Fencing is a wonderful, truly special, lifelong sport.
I have naver held a Belgian grip until now but it looks quite good on the pictures. I've been using visconti for ages now but I feel, that the shaft which extends down the wrist from the palm, is limiting my agilty. It pushes into my arm when I fence at rather extreme angles, that is especially a problem when I'm fencing a Leftie. Just a question now: Does the Belgian grip give support for the palm? If so, I think, I really should try it.
-Should you find mistakes in my post...feel free to keep them.
One possible suggestion on what you described. If you are happy with the Visconte, except for not being able to do the extreme angles, you might try shortening the back of the weapon. That seems to be a very popular adjustment. After shortening, make sure and round the end. If you are a Foil fencer, it would also be good to tape the end for protection of the prong.
I use the PBT grips that are a smaller, more angular version of a Belgian. The shaft which extends down towards the wrist is shorter, broader, and kind of hugs your hand/wrist a little closer than the corresponding shaft on the Visconti. I use it to brace the base of my palm against for extra leverage at times. I guess in theory it could potentially dig into my wrist if I really tried to make it do that (like super crazy extreme angulation) but I've never had any issues with it, because it's so short and because of that closeness to the hand.
--Marie
Originally Posted by Stylothek
I have naver held a Belgian grip until now but it looks quite good on the pictures. I've been using visconti for ages now but I feel, that the shaft which extends down the wrist from the palm, is limiting my agilty. It pushes into my arm when I fence at rather extreme angles, that is especially a problem when I'm fencing a Leftie. Just a question now: Does the Belgian grip give support for the palm? If so, I think, I really should try it.
I am obviously in a distinct minority because I use the russian grip (epee). When I fenced in college, I used french, then german, then simultaneously belgium and visconti. After a long hiatus (20+ yrs), I began fencing again and used the visconti again, but I found that the precise placement of fingers required by the grip was causing injury to the lowest knuckle of my index finger. So I switched to a russian.
I can't even remember why I switched to it, but I felt the russian offered greater flexibility for my hand while allowing me to maintain good point control, continue to use strong beats, effectively use takes (binds) and still be able to control attempts by opponents to take my blade.
Like french, the hand controls the russian grip at basically three points, but at the thumb prong, the forefinger and the little finger at the stem of the grip. However, it doesn't have the restraints imposed on the fingers by the visconti or german.
I like the russian grip, but each person has their own opinion!
lol, a lyric i actually know of, one of my sister's fav. songs... *ahem*
The grip I use is french, I've tried russian (hurts my hand badly), german (it's okay) but I'm sticking with french (though the spanish grip I like). The french has better point control plus you can grip lower, along the pummel, for a much longer reach.
I have only used a French grip before. I'm not set on anything, I'll give something new a try if I need to. But till then I am more than happy with French.
I have naver held a Belgian grip until now but it looks quite good on the pictures. I've been using visconti for ages now but I feel, that the shaft which extends down the wrist from the palm, is limiting my agilty. It pushes into my arm when I fence at rather extreme angles, that is especially a problem when I'm fencing a Leftie. Just a question now: Does the Belgian grip give support for the palm? If so, I think, I really should try it.
You might also try the Zivkovic line of grips. He has several that are sort of like a visconti but allow a great deal of "extreme angle" fencing for infighting and in passing remise shots. You can see them at: http://www.zivkovic.com/sub_category...category_id=31
They are all a bit differant from the other in how they feel. I use the BIII. I have tried te G and B I lines before. The G feels very nice for foil but is a tad to small for my very large hands and the B is just to heavy. It is kind of like a russian with fingure molds.
Just another lost soul saved by the (hit) First Church of EPEE!
I use an Uhlmann English Grip (Insulated) and have found it to be the best thing I've ever held outside an older russian grip. Some people would want to grind off the back part to free up their wrist a little but all I've had to do is grind it down to fit my hand.
I'm so cool; put me in a fridge and it gets colder!
I'm Australian and that makes me MANLY!
I have not come across and English grip, or at least not heard whatever it is called that. If you could give me a picture or a link I would be much obliged!
Just another lost soul saved by the (hit) First Church of EPEE!
This is demonstrates why banning a handle by name would be stupid. To many, the picture you posted, would be called a Belgium. Uhlmann has a Belgium handle, but most looking at it would call it a Visconte.
Yep, to me (and to anyone on this side of the pond that I have met) that would be a Belgian. Uhlmann makes nice ones but my absolute favorites are made by an Italian company called Schermasport and they look like this: http://www.negrini.com/Art555S.htm If you ever want a change from the Uhlmann I recommend you give them a try as they are very spiffy. At least to me. Of course I should probably mention I am considered to have weird taste in grips by a lot of folks. My primary grip is a Zivkovic BIII http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=406 Thanks for posting the pic of your grip.
Just another lost soul saved by the (hit) First Church of EPEE!
Now I use a hungarian for foil and a russian for epee.
for many years I used only the french grip then mixed in the Italian for foil just to freak people out. Had to give them up after I subjected my index finger to enough abuse over the years that I couldn't use them properly for an entire bout. sigh......
If you give a man a fire, he is warm for the night.
If you set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
I prefer a visconti in general, but I'm doing an experiment with a French grip for épée. I'm not doing that thing where you hild it by the pommel and stick it out to get 2" extra of reach, but I'm holding it normally instead. I was surprised at how it helped me with angles-there are MANY angles you can achieve with a French grip that would be next to impossible with a pistol (And infighting almost always goes to me against a pistol grip). I can't beat as hard anymore, which almost makes up for it, but we'll have to see...
I was talking with one of the senior epeeists and the epee coach at our club last night about different grips (I'm a sabre person by training, but I occationally dabble in epee, and coach beginners). The epeeist in question uses a french grip and does the pommeling question. His method of fencing is to do lots of absence of blade stuff. He also has impecable control of distance. But what I discovered last night was how he balances his weapons. Instead of the standard "four fingers out from the guard" his blades are balanced much closer in, almost at the gaurd. He acheives this by using fat heavy french grips and a big ol' pommel. In fact his blades are balanced such, that holding them with fingers up by the gaurd in "standard" mode feels distinctly "odd." But when you pommel one, its perfectly balanced.
We're stories of opposites. I couldn't hit the ***end of an elephant with a pistol grip. It took me 4-5 months with the French grip practicing, before the "muscle memory" started to kick in. Now it's point and hit. I don't know what kept me from trying it earlier. I guess the morals of our stories are "different strokes for different folkes....."
I originally learned on pistol grips because I just didn't like the pistol grips. One week, My blades were all broken so I had to borrow french grips and really learned something.
I believe that french grips are harder to use, but because of that, they help you strengthen your fingers and improve your point control. Remember, most grips, including french, SHOULD be held in about the same way. If you hold your pistol grip as you would a french grip, you are likely to have excellent point control.
For actual competition, I would never use a french grip for foil. It would simply be too much strain on my hand, and I need to last into those later rounds, which could be hours away. However, I think you should always keep at least 1 french practice weapon around to help improve your finger strength and point control.
Originally Posted by glowstix
if you've fenced for 47 years then i believe you...i mean, why would you say all this stuff if it wasn't so for you. but for me, i used the french grip for a while because i read evangelista's books and was gullible....now, like i said earlier in this thread, i use russian and i think it works fine for me. my hand just feels secure. my disengages are tighter especially in epee and i don't feel the need to grip really hard like i did with the french.
