Epee Blade Question....

[kro]

I have a friend that has an epee that is SUPER lightweight. She bought it from Blue Gauntlet but I can't find the make of the blade on their site. It is a BF/FIE blade that is stamped with a TM. Anyone have any idea who's blade this is?

thanks,
kro

[CvilleFencer]

It is a Blaise Feres blade from France, hence the BF. They are the same FIE blades that Uhlmann/Allstar, Zivkovic, TCA, PBT Ect. sell as their top of the line gear, and one of my favorite blades as well. The Fencing Post and Blue Guantlet sell them under the Uhlmann private label. I have heard that Uhlmann gets first dibs on the blades and everyone else gets what they do not chose or does not live up to their standards but I have not idea if that is true and I have a Zivkovic BF that I have been very happy with and several of my friends use and swear by the TCA BF blades as they are much cheaper than the Uhlmann blades from the same forge. They are great blades but they are a tad bit pricey and I think the Leon Paul blades are a bit lighter, but the balance is very differant so it may not feel the same.

Just FYI this type of topic is more appropriate for the armoury section. Hope all that helps!

[noodle]

he summed it up pretty well, but i'm going to add a few points of my own:

-its true that uhlmann FIE blades are more expensive because they get first pick of the blades, so they generally snag up the more quality ones. then as you go down the line, you get more to the proverbial runts of the litter. the other places may be less expensive but there's a chance that they won't last quite as long as the uhlmann stamped ones on average.

-as for the TM stamp, i don't really know whose that is, honestly. but BG are the ones that sell them the most from what i've seen, though BG seems to be now selling more cartel stamped blades with the occasional uhlmann.

[hello?]

How do these blades compare to Maragin?

[noodle]

How do these blades compare to Maragin?

maragin(g) steel is used to construct all FIE weapons except (most) sabre blades. including the blades we're referring to in this thread.

[DHCJr]

maragin(g) steel is used to construct all FIE weapons except (most) sabre blades. including the blades we're referring to in this thread.

Not quite true. There are some non-maraging steel FIE blades. Uhlmann has one from their own forge, that was originally Scironni. But for the most part, that is true.

It is interesting that there are some Sabre blades that are stamped FIE, even though the FIE does not certified Sabre blades.

[The0ne]

Does the maraging technology actually work? It's supposed to break cleanly, but I've had a vniti FIE foil break with a pretty jagged edge, and I think that vniti's are maraging. . .

[Purple Fencer]

Does the maraging technology actually work? It's supposed to break cleanly, but I've had a vniti FIE foil break with a pretty jagged edge, and I think that vniti's are maraging. . .

Actually that's not correct...I used to think so. Per Dan Dechaine (and you don't get more authoratative than HIM), the breakage pattrens between FIE and non-FIE blades is the same. The BIG thing about FIE blades is that they last soooo much longer...less blade breakage means less injuries (read: Smirnov) FROM a broken blade...flat end or not.

[Artisan]

Actually that's not correct...I used to think so. Per Dan Dechaine (and you don't get more authoratative than HIM), the breakage pattrens between FIE and non-FIE blades is the same. The BIG thing about FIE blades is that they last soooo much longer...less blade breakage means less injuries (read: Smirnov) FROM a broken blade...flat end or not.

Not to knock Mr. Dechaine, but in my considerably lesser experience, I have personally broken non-maraging foil and epee blades (cheapies) that looked like daggers, whereas the maraging blades I've broken were all more or less square - perhaps with the exception of a small lip on the "hinge" side of the break. If what Dechaine says is true, then we have all been wasting money to meet an unnecessary safety rule...

There may be something to high quality or FIE non-maraging blades breaking as cleanly as maraging blades though...

[Purple Fencer]

Not to knock Mr. Dechaine, but in my considerably lesser experience, I have personally broken non-maraging foil and epee blades (cheapies) that looked like daggers, whereas the maraging blades I've broken were all more or less square - perhaps with the exception of a small lip on the "hinge" side of the break. If what Dechaine says is true, then we have all been wasting money to meet an unnecessary safety rule...

I'd say what happened to Smirnov does not make the safty rule unnecessary...and I have seen FIE blades split down the groove,,,REAL nice spike there.

[oiuyt]

Artisan- I think you missed the point. The safety comes from having a tenth the number of breakages in the first place. Assuming that unbroken blades are safe (not quite a good assumption, but close enough for a working hypothesis), this means that the risk of injury should be cut about in tenth (1/10 is just a fill-in number, what you actually need is the breakage ratio of maraging to non-maraging, 1/10 is a rough estimate). Actually with the super-duper testing now starting to be used at the FIE level (microfracture detection) the blade breakage should be dramatically reduced even further (although this, unfortunately, won't lead to longer blade life or lower costs as it results in blades being discarded before they have a chance to break).

Dan's citation wasn't from his personal experience, it was from the FIE taking several barrels-worth of broken blades, sorting them into FIE and non-FIE, and examining the ends of each blade. For those unfamiliar with who Dan Dechaine is, he's a member of the FIE SEMI committee. The SEMI committee is the part of the USFA that decides (and oversees) all materials safety rules and regulations (well, the medical committee has a fair amount of input as well). He's also a really cool guy with a HUGE wealth of information that he's always ready and willing to share. Decades of experience with world class fencing and armoring, wrapped in the guise of a very friendly person. If you get the chance to meet and get to know Dan, you're lucky. Incidently, he also teaches the Armorer's College that's attached to the USFA Coaches College held in non-Olympic years (or rather in non-summer Olympic years) at the OTC in Colorado.

-B :)

[Purple Fencer]

I think SEMI is a FIE commission, not USFA...

A good description of Dan...he could be DEAD and out-armor most of us....with an exotic beer in his hand!

Donald Clinton asked me to join the armoring crew at the Long Beach Invitational a few years back...it would be him, Carl Oberg, Dan, (ok...right there you have a gigantic amount of armoing talent), three other people who I didn't know (and whose names I cannot rememberm, except for Dolly from AZ), and myself....I was DEFINITELY the weak sister of the crew, but the amount of info I soaked up in 2 days just listening to those guys (this was the event where Dan told be about the breakage patterns, btw) has helped me immensly!

[Gav]

This really is an armoury question. I'm moving it over there.

[Army Fencer]

The safety comes from having a tenth the number of breakages in the first place.

Could some one please tell that to my FIE blades??