Six or eight parries?

**Jisahn** · 08-18-2002 05:55 PM

Evanglista ... 8; Nadi ... 8, but he only uses 6; my own coach ... yes, there are 8 parries, but you rarely ever need anything other quarte/sixte and their counters.

What say you? And, if you would indulge me ... how should the hand be held in each parry (supinated or pronated)? I'm finging a great fluctuation even among the experienced fencers in my club (which range from Russia, Hungary, and even Puerto Rico).

What are your favorite parries, and why?

** Edited to get rid of all caps title.**

[ 08-19-2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: webmaster ]

**Peach** · 08-18-2002 05:57 PM

I like seconde myself. One of my coaches is particularly fond of prime. Tierce is handy, as is quarte, and five. Don't use sixte, octave, or seven.

**135711** · 08-18-2002 06:22 PM

sixte is one of my favorites, it should be suppinated, but it's midway between pronated and suppinated, we need a new word to describe the vertical hold, second is good also, but it's more difficult to move out of 2nd into a decent reposte, i like 8 better than 2

**epeefencer74** · 08-18-2002 07:19 PM

There are eight parries originally. Quarte, Sixte, Septime and Octave are held in the supine postion. Prime, Seconde, Tierce, Quinte are held in the pronated postion. But 135711 is right with regards to the supinated parries, they are better effected somewhere between the supine and pronated positions. Most of my coaches contend that you only need to know 5 parries, all the supinated parries + the prime. Everything else is dropped.

My own position is that all eight have their uses. The seconde and tierce can be used as ceding parries thus allowing you to parry an attack later. (I like these because they allow me to get in real close for infighting).

[ 08-19-2002, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: epeefencer74 ]

**attila** · 08-19-2002 12:51 AM

Hi

The thing about parries is that you have to do the "right" one for the specific attack. If the attack is in low line and you do a parry 6....well , touch goes against. Pre-planning parries blindly is just going to get you hit. The only true way to figure out whether on not you did the right parry is if you landed the riposte. Better to learn all the parries. They do come in handy, you just don't know when....

**Gav** · 08-19-2002 04:27 AM

Atilla is right on the money here. There ARE 8 parries, some are more useful than others, but if you learn them all then when someone pulls something different on you then you will have the answer - this particularly true in Epee. It also matters what hand is your weapon arm, as a leftie I will be forced in to using certain parries against righties and vice versa.

**three_hundred_fifty_five** · 08-19-2002 05:42 AM

In foil, I mainly use 4, 6, 7 and 8. I mix them up with semi-circular and circular parries.
There's 1, 2, 3, and 5 but I don't see the need to use them.

**HilandDoug** · 08-19-2002 10:18 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the oft forgotten 9 parry. According to an old book I found at the library (I think by Mr Agosti), it was used mostly on horseback to protect the back. Hand held behind the head with thumb down, blade pointing down along the spine. I actually effectively used it once (once!) to parry a riposte after my disengaging fleche failed miserably.

**haggis** · 08-19-2002 01:25 PM

For Hiland Doug

Modern variation of 9 used to defend against flick to shoulder. Always good when an oldie makes a comeback to meet the demands of the sport.

**HilandDoug** · 08-19-2002 01:41 PM

Good point, haggis (pardon the pun!)

**135711** · 08-19-2002 03:03 PM

naughty girl peach, those are the best parries. prime is difficult to execute but necessary, it, like 2nd is difficult to come out of, but you need to know it at least for defense. i've used the raised guard to defend against the flick, but it was never second nature. i found i used a modified 6th for that, but it doesn't work unless you raise your arm. i think we'll see more of the epee parries involved in foil, due to the use of the flick. flicking is very epee in essence, it's a 'real' move, it's the foilists 'cut'.

**swordsen** · 08-19-2002 04:36 PM

I tend to not use five except as a ceeding parry. I tend to prefer two over eight. Other than that they all get good use when I fence.

Well thinking aboput it. I almost never do three. At times right up at the shoulder to protect against a flick but even that is rare.

**epeefencer74** · 08-19-2002 05:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by haggis:
For Hiland Doug

Modern variation of 9 used to defend against flick to shoulder. Always good when an oldie makes a comeback to meet the demands of the sport.<hr /></blockquote>Oh so that's what it's called. I always thought that it was a variation of the sixte parry. I shall remember that.

**Jisahn** · 08-19-2002 07:09 PM

All excellent points, indeed. Personally, I make extensive use of quarte/sixte, counter of sixte, and the low line parries of septime/octave.

So tell me, what is the funtional difference between, say, quinte and septime? They are both low line parries, but quinte is obviously a unique parry.

I consider the prime an emergency move; expecially helpful against a fleche.

**Inquartata** · 08-19-2002 08:21 PM

I too was going to bring up 9, but HilandDoug beat ( no pun inten---oh, who am I kidding ) me to it, so, in order to get in "the last word"...the "St. George's "parry! Ha! Only seen in sabre, of course.

**epeefencer74** · 08-19-2002 08:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
I too was going to bring up 9, but HilandDoug beat ( no pun inten---oh, who am I kidding ) me to it, so, in order to get in "the last word"...the "St. George's "parry! Ha! Only seen in sabre, of course.<hr /></blockquote>Have to disagree with you here Inq, I have used a variation of this parry in epee to block flicks to hand and shoulder. Although I had thought that this was a modification of the 6 parry,I know better now.

**epeefencer74** · 08-19-2002 08:34 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jisahn:

I consider the prime an emergency move; expecially helpful against a fleche.<hr /></blockquote>Hmm.. I use the prime as a counter against the fleche as well, but sometimes I plan and I teach my students to plan to end up with in a prime position for the final hit when in very close distance. I beat feint to the opponents arm, opponent parries circular 6, I step in with a prime parry to his riposte, hit to thigh or hip. There are a lot of variations to employ the prime parry as part of a system of attacks.

**attila** · 08-19-2002 09:29 PM

Hi Jhisan

Prime is a fine parry. It has offensive as well as defensive qualities. It is most helfull in close quarter fighting, especially as a second intention tool. Parry five (quinte) is also quite a lovely little tool. Mostly used to defeat a 4-7 attack. If your opponent goes high then sneaks low you can keep rotating your parry four right down with him and riposte to flank or flick to back or end up in highline( inside or out) . I seldom have a need for 7 against a righty but very usefull againt lefties. A combination parry 4-7 with a riposte to either 8 or a lifted flick to shoulder has saved my butt more than a few times.

So do you have a coach? Or are you like me out in the boons trying to do it by your self?

**135711** · 08-20-2002 04:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by swordsen:
I tend to not use five except as a ceeding parry. I tend to prefer two over eight. Other than that they all get good use when I fence.

Well thinking aboput it. I almost never do three. At times right up at the shoulder to protect against a flick but even that is rare.<hr /></blockquote>you must fence saber?

**Jisahn** · 08-20-2002 06:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by attila:
So do you have a coach? Or are you like me out in the boons trying to do it by your self?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, I have a certified coach who is quite knowledgeable, but I always find value in others opinions and techniques. I like to bounce these ideas off of him.

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