Peter Vanky awarded "Act of Fair Play" prize!

[Zilverzmurfen]

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to share these good news about our swedish top epéeist Peter Vanky. (Article taken from the homepage of the Swedish Fencing Federation. Mind you, this is my translation swedish--->english so it may be a bit "blunt". Peter would probably put it a lot better than me. Oh well...)


"Peter Vanky winning "Act of Fair Play"

Peter Vanky has been awarded CIFP's (International Committee of Fair Play) prize for "Act of Fair Play" for 2003. The reason is that he admitted to having scored a touch in his own leg instead of his opponent, Christoph Marik of Austria, in the World Cup finals in Kuwait last year.

Neither Marik nor the president noticed that it was a faulty touch and it was taken away only after Peter himself had pointed this out. After the faulty touch was taken away Peter was ahead 9-8 but sadly lost the final 15-13 to Marik.

Peter insn't too impressed by his own handling. He said "- If I'm going to win I want to do it in an honest manner. It would have felt bad to accept that touch. After all, fencing is about hitting your opponent and not yourself so I had no problem admitting the "crime"."

The International Committee of Fair Play annually awards athletes who stood out by acting in good sportmanship.
The committee consists of ex IOK president Juan Antonio Samaranch and the FIFA president Joseph S Blatter, amongst others."


Let's hear it for Peter!

[DHCJr]

This just shows, this is still the sport of Gentlemen and Ladies. I mean that in a positive sense.

[The0ne]

Wow. At that level, and that touch would have made the score 10-8. Honorable guy!!

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to share these good news about our swedish top epéeist Peter Vanky. (Article taken from the homepage of the Swedish Fencing Federation. Mind you, this is my translation swedish--->english so it may be a bit "blunt". Peter would probably put it a lot better than me. Oh well...)

I read the original, and your translation is perfect.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Masterurethane]

Ah good good, the way it should be.

[MikeHarm]

Its nice but.. I'm amazed that after he lost his coach didn't strangle him for doing it.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Its nice but.. I'm amazed that after he lost his coach didn't strangle him for doing it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but... what does this say about your opinion of coaches?

[MikeHarm]

Its not the best opinion, but remember I'm someone who goes to tourneys alone without a coach on my side, sometimes having the coach of my opponent directing the match, and when I'm not in that situation I don't have anyone on my side to counter the opponents coach trying to pressure the director making me feel ganged up on. I have to imagine coaches would be way more intense at a world cup in full 'coaching mode' than what I've seen out here.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Its not the best opinion, but remember I'm someone who goes to tourneys alone without a coach on my side, sometimes having the coach of my opponent directing the match, and when I'm not in that situation I don't have anyone on my side to counter the opponents coach trying to pressure the director making me feel ganged up on. I have to imagine coaches would be way more intense at a world cup in full 'coaching mode' than what I've seen out here.

I can see how that influences your opinion.

How does an opposing coach influence the director? I haven't gone to any tourneys as a participant, only as a spectator. My knowledge of the rules is not what it should be, but aren't there any strictures on this type of behavior? I mean if the director is that weak, is there any recourse? That could REALLY turn one off to competing (especially when one doesn't have the highest regard for some interpretations of the rules )

[MikeHarm]

Having a coach on the opposing side while you don't have one can potentially influence the match in a lot of ways outside of giving their fencer tactical advice.

Firstly the pressure from having the coach complaining about any calls against their fencer on one end, but noone saying anything on the other creates a path of least resistance situation for better calls on the side with a coach.

Secondly, the coach can find ways to delay the match if things are going badly to allow their fencer to regroup. Trying to get judges to look for obscuring the target(they get the delay from appointing the judges, arguing about who should be one possibly and if they're lucky arguing with the judges as well as the director about what they should of seen on particular actions as the fencing progresses), 'helping' with adjusting weapons body cords whatever, getting in arguments with the director.

In one match when their fencer was down, I saw the coach argue for almost 10 minutes with the director on the rules for one of their calls before the action could continue in a DE match for example. This was without their fencer objecting or saying anything or even trying to appeal the call, just the coach inserting himself into the match basically.

Thirdly outside of working on the director the coach can try to work on you mentally by shouting during the match to throw you off mentally, or trying to play mind games. Examples are shouting that you're breaking a rule even if you aren't (the sword bend is popular now, claims of shoulders turning too far is also popular), or just happening to have a conversation with their fencer while you're in earshot talking about how much better they are than you are and berating your skills. If you're worrying about your shoulders crossing instead of what your opponent is doing your score can start to plummet pretty fast.

Earning their keep, true. But these things are to me more about winning by any means you can than good sportsmanship and letting the best fencing win the match.

While I don't think every coach does that sort of thing, if both sides have a coach they can keep each other in check and things go more smoothly and you have less chance of anything like the above happening to any degree I think.

And yeah there are rules that a good director can use to keep coaches in check. They can throw cards or expel them from the venue if they feel folks are going too far. You'll see coaches sometimes kind of testing the water with the director, going just a little farther and getting closer and closer to the strip until they find what level they can act up and how close to the action they can be, and how loud they can shout without getting in trouble and staying there.

You'll see fencers playing games like that with the directors too of course, its not just the coaches. Lol, I'm suprised sometimes that the directors put up with us at all considering what they have to deal with sometimes.

There are a lot of games in fencing outside of the fencing itself that can be just as interesting to watch for a spectator if you recognize them I think.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

And yeah there are rules that a good director can use to keep coaches in check. They can throw cards or expel them from the venue if they feel folks are going too far. You'll see coaches sometimes kind of testing the water with the director, going just a little farther and getting closer and closer to the strip until they find what level they can act up and how close to the action they can be, and how loud they can shout without getting in trouble and staying there.

You'll see fencers playing games like that with the directors too of course, its not just the coaches. Lol, I'm suprised sometimes that the directors put up with us at all considering what they have to deal with sometimes.

There are a lot of games in fencing outside of the fencing itself that can be just as interesting to watch for a spectator if you recognize them I think.

My first thought was... there oughtta be a rule(law). Then my Libertarian nature kicked in and I'm thinking directors and judges need to grow a pair and stand up to nincompoops who play those types of games. I think most people would respect that and not have too big a problem as long as it was consistent. Think tough but fair

[MikeHarm]

They do though, after folks direct long enough they won't put up with nothing.

Its when you have the combination of a coach who likes to do that sort of stuff, a fencer who is just on the edge of being able to beat their guy, and a newer director who wants to be reasonable and feels like tossing the card means they're not doing the job right when the coach/fencer goes over the line and scents blood and realizes he won't get penalized for anything that its time to grab the popcorn and watch the show.

There have been one or two times as a fencer at comps in between bouts when I've seen the coaches going nuclear in a match I was watching and I felt bad for the director forgetting the power they have where I just mentioned casually, 'you know..if you wanted to you could expel him from the venue' and it shut it all down like that. *snaps fingers*

In a way I think it adds drama to the sport. When I was growing up I used to watch wrestling a lot, and I enjoyed watching the matches where you'd have the coaches like the brain or Mr. Fuji desperately trying to alter the match for the heels and the face characters pulling off a win barely in spite of it.

To me, its kind of like that, if you beat someone with their own coach directing or the coach acting up or the opponent throwing fits its 100 times as fun and exciting as a regular win. The best is when they start desperately shouting actions for the fencer to do and you make a countertime trap against what they're told. Watching how shaken they get when the advice is turned against them if you pull it off is priceless.

Originally Posted by gojujay

My first thought was... there oughtta be a rule(law). Then my Libertarian nature kicked in and I'm thinking directors and judges need to grow a pair and stand up to nincompoops who play those types of games. I think most people would respect that and not have too big a problem as long as it was consistent. Think tough but fair

[veeco]

I find this honorable that acts of fair play like this are recognized.

At first I was going to say that well, I have seen this happen on various fencing footage videos, several times, and those people never got a mention of it. Why Peter Vanky over the others?

Then I realized that it doesn't really matter who gets the prize, in this case. The fact that it is recognized that being fair play is good and that this happens in fencing is just good overall exposure to our sport. And the fact that this award is given to one of the most experienced epee fencers on the world cup tour goes to show that Peter Vanky knows how to lead by example.

[gojujay]

I guess I'm expecting too much. A coach SHOULD have the self-restraint and confidence in their pupil to not act like an idiot. I wonder if a tournament with sharps would curtail that behavior

I do agree that beating such a "team" can be extremely satisfying

[jspierre]

You know, it's no surprise that an epee fencer won the award. A clubmate once told me that epee fencers, in his experience, were the most honest on the strip of the three weapons people fence. He was a foilest, and on the intl circut.

When you think about it, it makes sense.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by gojujay

My first thought was... there oughtta be a rule(law). Then my Libertarian nature kicked in and I'm thinking directors and judges need to grow a pair and stand up to nincompoops who play those types of games. I think most people would respect that and not have too big a problem as long as it was consistent. Think tough but fair

A rules suggestion: "disturbing order on strip", when done by a trainer, should be actionable not only by the ref in that strip, but also by the refs at the *adjoining* strips. Should dampen some screamers. Also, make the top punishment a black card vaild for several competitions.

We have few trained refs as it is, so making it worse for those we have is bad.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!



A rules suggestion: "disturbing order on strip", when done by a trainer, should be actionable not only by the ref in that strip, but also by the refs at the *adjoining* strips. Should dampen some screamers. Also, make the top punishment a black card vaild for several competitions.

We have few trained refs as it is, so making it worse for those we have is bad.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

I'm sure this will lead to much more yelling at first, anyway