Equipment Recommendations and Epee Tip Survey

[Pepster]

Ok,

I know there are a few word here of there around this board, but I'd prefer to hear the freshest ideas. I'm about to go on a minor fencing equipment binge, and want to get a few questions answered first.

1) How are people's experiences with the "Screwless" epee tips? The idea is tempting, but I'd hate to have to re-wire just because the tip is crappy. If not screwless, I've heard better things bout German tips.

2) I've seen plenty of comments on the durability of LP epee blades, but how flicky are they? I have a blade from santelli now, I believe it's LP (Haven't checked recently and my memory's going) and it's decent, but I've seen better (but forgot the brand). Any good reviews of flicky-but-durable blades?

3) Anyone know a good way to judge pistol grips outside of borrowing from club buddies? I have the biggest hands around, and I have yet to REALLY like a grip.

4) In general, Do vendor-made wepons compare to self-made? I'm a halfway decent armorer, but I've had zero problems with the one blade I had made for me (santelli). Is it generally worth the extra cost?

Thanks,
I'm sure you all have PLENTY of experiences to share.

-Pep

[noodle]

1) i've never tried them, but i've heard things that weren't horrible, but were valid enough reasons to make me not want to try them.

2) from what i understand they're reasonably stiff. if you're looking for a flicky, durable blade, vniti epee blades are both. but they're probably the heaviest blade on the market.

3) no, no good way besides going to a vendor at an event or borrowing them. i tend to find that if you like viscontis, allstar or uhlmann make the best. the rest are just knockoffs that don't really feel the same.

4) vendor-made weapons usually aren't that much more expensive than if you buy the parts separately, if at all. if you trust you own armouring skills or want to test them, though, its not a big deal. as long as the weapon works.

[DangerMouse]

1) I haven't tried the screwless tips, but the lack of interchangeable parts has put off of them. You should also think about the Leon Paul PTFE coated tip assemblies. I've been using them for a couple years and they are much more durable than either the french or german ones (and cheaper than the german).

2) I've been using LP epee blades exclusively for about 5-6 years now. You can get them in a variety of stiffnesses if you ask the vendor. I've found that as they break in, the medium-stiff blades are great for wrist flicks because they bend close to the tip. The more flexible ones tend to have "tip lag" where it takes a fraction of a second for the tip to catch up to the rest of the blade when parrying.

3) You can find a vendor that will send you a few different types and them return the ones you don't want.

4) Depends on the vendor. I can't buy vendor made weapons because the tips I use aren't sold by any of the US vendors, so I have to order them from LP directly. I also prefer to mix and match components. Of course, I don't trust anyone else with my weapons...

[CvilleFencer]

1. I had one with a foil I bought almost two years ago and I did not care for it at all. It self-destructed pretty quickly as something holding it together snapped while fencing and the tip flew across the room. I tried to take it apart to fix it but never got it to go back together and I stripped the barrel screw trying to get it off. I have heard they have gotten better but as Dangermouse mentions they are not compatible with anything else so if they ever break at a tourney you are probably not going to be able to bum/buy parts off of friends or teammates.

I also agree with DM about the quality of the LP PTFE tips. They are just awesome and last as long or longer as the German ones. They are not 100% compatible with other pieces but you can fudge some basic repairs with French or German parts if you have too.

2. I really like the LP blades but I have not found one that flicks in a way I really like. After a little use the limber up and you can flick with them without two much trouble if you have a good flick for wrist shots and so forth, but I would not say they are a great flickers blade.

I have a Vniti epee that is as whippy as some of my foils however. I do not like a very flexible blade so I use it as a back up and for teaching classes or doing drills as it is incredibly durable. You can pull off some pretty amazing flicks with it though, even flicks to the back if you wish, but the weight of the blade makes me sometimes land much harder than I want two so I do not really try anything other than wrist/arm/thigh flicks with it.


3. They best way to try shop for a grip is to try them out in person. I have very large hands as well and the only ones I have found to be truly comfy over long tourneys is the Zivkovic B and GIII grips. They are made for those of us with very large hands. They take a bit to get use too but I love them.

4. For me it seems that it would be cheaper to buy preassembled weapons but I am very picky what with using LP tips, BF or Vniti blades, and Zivkovic handles with extra large foil and extra light epee guards and leather pads for both. So for my personal weapons I pretty much have to build them myself and this lets me polish the barrel and locktite any pieces (screws, springs, and barrels) the way I want them. I usually buy prewired blades for the club and especially for epee they usually have to be adjusted at first or very soon after their first use so I have started to just buy them bare and wire them up myself.

Hope all that helps!

[sah62]

I tried several of the Estoc tips a year or so ago. While I found the action to be much smoother than the typical French or German tip, the contact springs required checking and (very often) adjustment after every bout. It was easy to adjust them without the screws, but I was surprised at just how quickly they went out of spec.

I've been much happier with the LP PTFE tips. Just as smooth, and much more durable.

[ztron24]

i've spent a little time messing around with the screwless tips, both for epee and foil. in general, there's not that huge a difference. if you want to get specific, however, i find that screwless tips:
1. are harder to install, i.e. grinding down the little post to just the right length takes some doing, the wires attatched to the cup are very stiff and brittle, there are still lots of little parts/things that go wrong.
2.stuff goes wrong less tahn screw tips, but stuff still goes wrong. lots of times it seems the little plastic ring will work it's way down into the tip casuing big problems.
3. when stuff does go wrong, it's a pain. those things don't stay that tight.
4.however you can get pretty nitpicky about shims, if you feel that is really giving you an edge.
5. the tip travel is smooth, but no smoother than the leon paul's, or any other tip that is clean and installed properly
6. they are way expensive.

it's a really good idea, actually. the practicalities don't always work out so well. but again, not that huge a difference, in my opinion...

[DHCJr]

I noticed a number of people stating you need to grind down the post to adjust it. There is a better way, the way it was designed to be adjusted with. If you notice many of those tips have a screw in the top. This does not adjust the travel, but if you remove it carefully you will first find a small spring. Under that is the post. Around the post are spacers (VERY TINY washers. You add or take away washers to adjust most of these tips.

Be very careful. When you take out the holding screw and the spring, put the tip on it top and gently push in the post. This will keep the spacers around the post. They are VERY TINY.

[Parsifal]

No one has mentioned a manufacturer other than Estoc for the screwless tips (...did I miss the reference?) - Does this discussion apply to Zip tips too? (zipfencing.com)

My instructor bought some Zip tips (epee only at this time) and likes them so far (3 weeks or so). They have no screw in the tip for adjusting though, as DHCJr is suggesting.... So the Estoc tips have the tip-end screw?

[twisterfencing]

1) How are people's experiences with the "Screwless" epee tips? The idea is tempting, but I'd hate to have to re-wire just because the tip is crappy. If not screwless, I've heard better things bout German tips.

In my opinion, the Estoc Screwless ones are good. Only two issues, 1) if you are a floor beater with your epee tips, its hard to do, yet you can bend the center pole of the tip shaft. 2) Contact spring comes loose. Easy fix, set the contract spring once, put less than a drop of super glue on the very end of the spring and your golden.
German tips are good as well. Something is said for most popular. Out of all the weapons I work on, German tips seem to be the most commom. I know there are those out there that use others, yet most of them work on they're own stuff and I never see them.

2) I've seen plenty of comments on the durability of LP epee blades, but how flicky are they? I have a blade from santelli now, I believe it's LP (Haven't checked recently and my memory's going) and it's decent, but I've seen better (but forgot the brand). Any good reviews of flicky-but-durable blades?

LP's are very flicky! Almost too flicky! You can whip one of this things and make a fan out them almost. Yes, they are durable, yet a little weird/hard to get used to at first due to the shape. After, that, those that use them, love them and swear by them.

3) Anyone know a good way to judge pistol grips outside of borrowing from club buddies? I have the biggest hands around, and I have yet to REALLY like a grip.

This is a very personalized item. Best thing to do is when you are at a NAC, go to the diffrent vendors and just try them out. Borrow some weapons from some of you club mates, see what you like and what fits your hand best.

4) In general, Do vendor-made wepons compare to self-made? I'm a halfway decent armorer, but I've had zero problems with the one blade I had made for me (santelli). Is it generally worth the extra cost?

In general, if you have the ability and knowledge, it is always better if you put it together yourself. You then know exactly how it is set up, cant of the blade, where the wires are, how you want your three prong socket located and so on. I wire up blades for several vendors in the US for a fee. I can say that all blades I work on, they are 100%, yet know that by the time they leave my hands, get put into boxes, shipped to several places in the US, something can go wrong. You do the set up/work, then you know where to lay the blame when something goes wrong. If you ever get stuck on something and need some help, call on a armourer and we would be glad to help out.


Gary Spruill

[Swordmaster]

No one has mentioned a manufacturer other than Estoc for the screwless tips .... So the Estoc tips have the tip-end screw?

The other screw-less point which is refered to is the old russian or schermasport design with the screw in the end of the tip. This design is no longer available. The new Schermasport point has a brass piston that must be shortened until it passes the small shim (not to mention the end of the special wire has to be filed flat before assembly 1mm from the end of the blade.)
Estoc Diamond 3000 points have no screw in the end and use standard wires. They were problematic in the begining for me, until I figured out how to keep the contact spring in adjustment by putting a tiny drop of super glue on the spring where it threads onto the stud.
I have been working on the Estoc point for 6 years now. I have found it to be a very reliable epee point even for the hardest of hitters. I replace blades all the time that have not outlasted the Estoc point. I would recommend you have it installed by a competent armorer just so that it is setup properly by someone who does it all the time...if you armorer isn't familar with them have him contact me.

[telkanuru]

A bit of loc-tite on the main assembly does some good as well.

I have found Zip Tips to have durability issues and to have problems with the shim spring not staying put.

Personally, my nice FWF german tips don't give me any issues, so I have no complaints. Ever since I switched from french tips, I have not had to worry about presenting my weapon for inspection. What more can I ask?

[KD5MDK]

tel - did you put glue or anything to hold the small shim in its place? I've seen that problem before, but haven't seen any zip tips recently.

[telkanuru]

I did end up gluing the small spring in place. I just think it's a design flaw that I have to.

[DJ Apostrophe]

David Abbondanzio showed up at my club last week and I was talking to him about the problems I had with the ziptip (getting beat up / broken easily, and the contact spring float)... the catastrophic failures that people were seeing is due to a production problem in the plastic in the tip. It only effects a limited number of the tips, which is why they don't consistently disentegrate... as for the contact spring float, there was a problem in the original spec of the metal screw post that the contact spring is attached to. This has been replaced with a new bost that is machined to a tighter tolerance.

David gave me a couple new tips as replacements for old tips that were no longer up to snuff, and I will try them out as soon as I get this bout of mono (mostly) kicked...

-w