Turning the corner

[esskreemr]

So, has anyone else waded through fencing in a virtual haze for years, not understanding why C and above fencers beat you so readily? Then, something clicks and you're understanding of advanced tactics is raised to a whole new level. I feel that this year, I have had a fencing epiphany. My fencing ability increased significantly and it showed as I started to easily beat people who were able to hold me to a draw or even beat me regularly. Unfortunately, I peaked mid-season, and had a horrible divisional qualifier for nationals. Previous to that, though, I felt that I had reached a new level. I'm hopeful that I can re-attain (deliberate) that level over summer. I'm currently taking a little while off to let a case of tennis elbow heal, but can't wait to get back into it.

I'm interested in everyone else's experience. Was it gradual over a few years, or did it come in a virtually short period of time?

If it was fairly sudden, what was the impetus? A string of competitions, advice from a fencing mate/coach, a book/video/movie?

[CvilleFencer]

I have had several small bursts of fencing understanding and they are usually preceded by some of the worst fencing/tourneys of my life! If seems that you learn for a while and then as you are bringing new things into your game or cleaning things up it gets worse and then all of a sudden it starts working for you and you lurch forward a bit. At least that is how it is for me. I could use a good fencing epiphany at the moment as I am starting to be less aggressive and work on my parry reposte and defensive game. As you may remember my game is pretty much hit the other guy first with something big and mean or swat/take his blade out of the way and stab him.

Anyway glad to hear you are surging forward in your game! Congrats on the new rating by the way! I think you earned that after we met yes? Good luck and if you have any spare fencing mojo lying around I would be much obliged...

[MHS Fencer]

My epiphanies (and I've been lucky enough to have a few as I've only fenced for six years) have generally come in the form of a stellar result or two (coming from fencing great bouts) followed by complete disaster, but when i fight back i can take advantage of what i've learned, and I wind up as a better fencer.

My take on this is that when you first learn something new you don't quite understand all of the nuances of it, and you use it to your advantage, but as you get a greater understanding of it you worry about other aspects of it, and it's not until you can fully get what is going on that you can return to that peak that you reach before dropping off.

Good luck on getting through it - it when you have that taste of victory and it's then snatched from you that you seperate people who love the sport and want to be better from those who can't take the idea of being worse than they had previously been for a bit.

[esskreemr]

Yep, got it at the sectional qualifier. Actually fencing multiple divisions was one of the muses for improving my fencing. I'm looking forward to making my way over there again in the upcoming year.

[The0ne]

I definitely know the feeling! For me it's usually very sudden, usually I figure out that I can do something simple at the right time and distance that works, where before I had tried to go through all sorts of complex crap to try and score. . .

[CarlKnoch]

I'm not sure that I've had very many forward bursts in fencing prowess, however there have been times when I've had epiphanies that cause me to change something that I'm doing over time.

This thread made me look back at my performance since my very first tourney in June of 2002. I broke down the tourenys as restricted, and opens. In the restricted you can see that my results pretty much went from bad, to really good quickly at first as I was in several U and E and Unders. But if you look at ONLY OPENS that I've been in, my results have steadily improved overall, with just a few times there I've done really poorly and not lived up to the progression that was forming. There have been no real jumps in my fencing in opens when I look at the hard data, even though I would have thought that there were several times when my fencing got beatter by leaps and bounds. Funny that, how I remember it differenly than it really happened.

Thanks to GP of CAP Division for blogging about how he rates himself and keeps up on his progress.

[Grey]

I would recommend writing down what you discovered. At times I find its better to distance oneself from right of way conventions and orthodox fencing methods for a while to gain back some measure of creativity in developing your fencing skills. I believe that at times we overly restrict ourselves around the conventions when we get too heavily involved.

However, keep it up! Do your best and become a 'A' Fencer!

[FoilyGeezer]

There have been no real jumps in my fencing in opens when I look at the hard data, even though I would have thought that there were several times when my fencing got beatter by leaps and bounds.

First off, the difference between getting your blade into a particular position, or getting it into that same position 3 or 4 milliseconds later is usually enough to be critically influential on whether a parry or an attack is successful or not.

One thing I've noticed in giving lessons is that the ability to physically perform an action (drill), and the ability to smoothly integrate that action into a series of continuous, improvisational phrases (bouting) are two distinctly different things.

Usually, the epiphany is at least partially rooted in the elimination of the mental debate required to perform an action...when it "just happens". Well, most of the time, it didn't just happen....it was the result of a process that is begininning to resolve itself and integrate itself into your fencing arsenal.

However this may or may not show up as a significant change in your W-L percentage. Depending on what level you're fencing on and against, a better performance may not be better enough to show up as more wins, but at least as closer bouts here and there. Very few fencers go to bed as a E and wake up the next morning as a B. It takes time.

[noodle]

my click was when i decided to put down the foil and pick up the epee
i was a D in foil, stopped to fence epee because people needed me to and went from a U to a B in a bit more than a year.

[The0ne]

It's not hard to get a B in Epee. . . Just be tall and disengage a bit!

[noodle]

if its so easy, call me when you get one
i almost got mine at the arlington nac. earning one at a national event is reasonably tough to do. but you can refer to the worst bout thread to find out what happened there.

[RETLAG]

Just recently I had to take a few weeks off from fencing due to an injury. When I came back I expected I would be terrible. In fact I was rusty physically, but somehow it seemed I was better mentally. I could see things that I couldn't see before (i.e. mistakes in distance or tempo that my opponent was making, or even mistakes that I was making). I was even better at directing (foil) than I had been before. It seens that the hiatus had somehow cleared my head, perhaps allowed me to see some bad habits I'd fallen into. I wonder if anybody else has had that experience.

[Morion]

I've been fencing for just over a year now, and I'm still wondering what it will take to beat U and aboves!

I figure if I just keep practicing it will come to me eventually. My coach did recently tell me that I was starting to act like a fencer instead of just waving a foil around so I guess that is progress!

[The0ne]

I've been fencing for just over a year now, and I'm still wondering what it will take to beat U and aboves!

I figure if I just keep practicing it will come to me eventually. My coach did recently tell me that I was starting to act like a fencer instead of just waving a foil around so I guess that is progress!

maybe you're rushing things too much? Trying to do everything too fast, and at the wrong time? When you get in a bout try and analyze your opponent. This means not rushing forward in a random attack (I'm good at doing this unfortunately!) but try and figure your opponent out. What's his favorite parry, or parry combonation? That kind of thing. If you think during bouts, and continue to work on your skills in private or group lessons, you should improve.

Hope that helped!

[esskreemr]

The key to fencing newbies is to keep it simple. A single disengage works pretty well, a simple feint, and through in a few second intention attacks. If you try to open up your full plethora of techniques, you'll find yourself getting frustrated.

[The0ne]

if its so easy, call me when you get one
i almost got mine at the arlington nac. earning one at a national event is reasonably tough to do. but you can refer to the worst bout thread to find out what happened there.

Well, the problem is I'm not outrageously tall, and my disengages are still pretty much crap (although I am working on them, honest I am!!!). Otherwise I would definitely have my B in epee.

[dunastor]

If I had killer timing and footwork (mustn't forget bladework..), and could read every other sabre fencer from meters away, I would be a world top fencer...

Unfortunately, I have a very very very long way to go....

[noodle]

Well, the problem is I'm not outrageously tall, and my disengages are still pretty much crap (although I am working on them, honest I am!!!). Otherwise I would definitely have my B in epee.

yeah, well you don't need to be tall with disengages. hit to the arm and whatnot. shoot, all you need is disengages (and point control but you really need that in any weapon) and you can win any level competition, foil epee or sabre.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Just recently I had to take a few weeks off from fencing due to an injury. When I came back I expected I would be terrible. In fact I was rusty physically, but somehow it seemed I was better mentally. I could see things that I couldn't see before (i.e. mistakes in distance or tempo that my opponent was making, or even mistakes that I was making). I was even better at directing (foil) than I had been before. It seens that the hiatus had somehow cleared my head, perhaps allowed me to see some bad habits I'd fallen into. I wonder if anybody else has had that experience.

Yes, the same thing happened to me last year after being out for two months following eye surgery.