Cynical

[jeff]

This proposal would have the effect of removing from discussion all use of public figures' quotes for 5 years, if not permanently. While I understand the desire to avoid "gotcha" discussions or obsess about slips of the tongue, I think it's quite on target to refer to public figures' faux pas as part of evaluating their performance. It's fair game - I mean, communication really is part of their jobs - subject to criticism about whether the citation is relevant or just mean spirited finger-pointing.

[Soldier]

And there you go again with the Bat of Pretend Ignorance.

Even the idea of briefly reviewing five years' worth of anybody's blathering is a bit much. The idea is, cut them some slack - they're watched a lot more closely and a lot more critically than most of us ever will be.

[jeff]

Maybe it's the Club of Excessive Literalness. In any case, these guys should be subject to a lot more critical scrutiny than the rest of us. Comes with the turf and the responsibility.

[Soldier]

But you have to admit it is frequently taken to a ridiculous level.

[Inquartata]

We didn't have logic or philosophy studies either, but we did spend time in English lessons learning how to logically construct and express an argument in a convincing way, and back it up with facts/evidence. We had to write discursive essays, and learnt to debate topics in a formal way. I like to think it's had an effect...

But that's rhetoric, not logic.

[Inquartata]

I propose that nobody should be allowed to search for quotes in such a manner until they have first recorded every speech of theirs for the last five years and submitted it to a panel of the people who hate them the worst, to be combed over for every little mistake. Then you can poke at public figures' speaking freely.

Whoever could be persuaded to read through so many endless reams of tedious material, though? ( I wouldn't be on such a panel, even for the discomfiture of my worst enemy! )

[jeff]

But you have to admit it is frequently taken to a ridiculous level.

Of course, hence the 2nd and last sentences of my first response to the proposal. I see that Inq also takes it literally, so he can carry the Bat of Pretend Ignorance for a while, too

[Inquartata]

Only if I can drive a couple of Nails of Tongue-in-Cheek through it...

[Louweasel]

But that's rhetoric, not logic.

I said we learned how to logically construct and express an argument. Key word being "logically". We had to back up our arguments with facts/evidence etc. I'm not talking about the art of public speaking or whipping the audience into a frenzy; I'm talking about logical thought processes.
Not "ah, the strawberry; fair fruit of our sunny isle, may heaven bless your rosy face..." (speechmaking) Nor "strawberries should be banned, because I'm afraid they might attack me in the night" (illogical). But "On one hand, I don't like strawberries because they bring me out in a rash, but on the other hand, they are a home-grown product so buying them supports our economy, they have lots of vitamins in them and many people like them a lot, so they should remain freely available."

If anyone sees my point....could you send it back to me.
I knew what I was getting at when I started typing....

BTW I'm not actually allergic to strawberries.

[Masterurethane]

I hear you :-)

Strawberries also have negative calories.

[Louweasel]

Strawberries also have negative calories.

Really? I would have thought they'd be quite high in sugar? Mmm, strawberries...

[Inquartata]

If anyone sees my point....could you send it back to me.

Heh, if you fenced sabre you wouldn't need one...

[Masterurethane]

Really? I would have thought they'd be quite high in sugar? Mmm, strawberries...

Yep, that's a pretty strong case for strawberries in my opinion.

As well as them being awesomely good for you and completely delicious :-)

[MikeHarm]

You want to hear something pathetic.. in the history class I had my senior year in our public education system, it had gotten even worse than that. In class, the teacher would ask questions. The teacher had lists of pre selected questions for their class, and the answers to the questions in the student books were even in big bold letters. Our teacher would say what section they were talking about and then have a discussion asking the questions on their list. The other students would just sit there acting confused every day. I'd stare at them not believing they couldn't answer...and eventually after a long torturous silence sigh and raise my hand and give the answers that were in bold.

A girl in the class asked me how I knew history so well after one of those..learning sessions. I told her it was because I could read. We managed amazingly to pass the point of just mindlessly memorizing the answers without thought and continue on to degrade educationally to a whole new level I hadn't thought possible where you couldn't even hand them the questions with the answers in advance, let them look in the book to get them and they'd get it right.

The one good thing about it was after having learned to abandon any hopes of becoming educated through relying on the public education system I did learn how to self-teach myself things I wanted to know which has helped me a lot in life.

my logic (philosophy) class sucked. it was pure memorization of a study guide (which is why i did poorly) as opposed to actually interpreting the topics. tests were super long and you couldn't really finish them without memorizing the actual test questions/answers (which he gave and i watched 90% of the class memorize just the answers). i kind of preferred to actually know the material, not the answers, and my grade was killed for that.

but the other logic (math and computer engineering) classes were easy, though.

<font color="red" size="1">danger: threadjack imminent</font>

[Inquartata]

We managed amazingly to pass the point of just mindlessly memorizing the answers without thought and continue on to degrade educationally to a whole new level I hadn't thought possible where you couldn't even hand them the questions with the answers in advance, let them look in the book to get them and they'd get it right.

Well, hey, McDonalds and Wal Mart have to get their employees somewhere. The world still needs drones more than intellectuals, and the schools are there to produce what society needs the most...