Cynical

[Maeve_Mari]

(For the purposes of this thread, "guy" is not gender-specific!)

Ah, I get it. So if I tell ya, Right On, Sister! You'd know it included you!?
hahahaha

[Army Fencer]

Come on. I'm not saying let's all get along, I'm saying let's try something new, alright? Images of WWI trench warfare are coming to mind, fights for mere feet of battlefield.

I stopped trying to argue with people in here because of what you're talking about. It's rather pointless.

At least in the fencing discussion, there are a few relevant topics we can actually do something about.

WWI.... ah yes. The Fields of Flanders. I went up to Canada to fence RMC a couple times always about the time they had Veteran's Day. The Canadas celebrate Veteran's Day by wearing red poppies, commemorating the soldiers that died in WWI. Ever since then, I try to wear one myself (when I can get away with it--it's kinda hard to wear on the uniform).

And that's my anti-cynical comment for the moment.

[Tireur]

Sharpton! Sharpton! Give us something for Sharpton!

"I would participate as a participant"
-Al Sharpton

[Soldier]

71% of all statistics are made up on the spot, anyway.

Really? Back up your source. See, I heard it's 80%, which obviously proves that you're a left-wing liberal nutcase with bad information.

[Soldier]

If I'm going to complain, I might as well come up with a solution, so here goes:

Don't restate your position. If your response to a person's argument/rebuttal is to just restate what you've already said, don't bother. If you want to respond to some tiny nuance of the argument, think about it before you do - is it really worth it? And if so, respond to just that, again, without restating your full position.

[Philistine]

If I'm going to complain, I might as well come up with a solution, so here goes:

Don't restate your position. If your response to a person's argument/rebuttal is to just restate what you've already said, don't bother. If you want to respond to some tiny nuance of the argument, think about it before you do - is it really worth it? And if so, respond to just that, again, without restating your full position.

My rough rule of thumb is that if I've posted three times in a row to somebody, and I don't feel the argument has progressed past the first post--it's time to give it up as a waste of time.

It's the long string of back-and-forth between two posters, neither really listening to the other, except to nitpick small details that IMHO derail threads. Not that there isn't the same sick fascination in reading them as there is in slowing down to gawk at a car wreck...

--Philistine

[Soldier]

Good rule of thumb!

[MHS Fencer]

I forget where I heard this, but "doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity." I think it applies very well to fencing (oh, i had it! i was there! i just need to do it again! and get hit again...) as it does to an online board - no point in wasting time doing the same ol' things with the same ol' dead-end results.

[Peach]

My rough rule of thumb is that if I've posted three times in a row to somebody, and I don't feel the argument has progressed past the first post--it's time to give it up as a waste of time.

It usually only takes one time for me.

[Artisan]

It usually only takes one time for me.

- sabre fencer.
- Don't know why Phillistine would try so hard. Maybe he's lawyer first sabreur second?

[Philistine]

- sabre fencer.
- Don't know why Phillistine would try so hard. Maybe he's lawyer first sabreur second?

It's both.

I just can't conceive that anyone wouldn't agree with me....so I put down the first response to my not having phrased it right, and the second response to simple confusion...

--Philistine

[Louweasel]

WWI.... ah yes. The Fields of Flanders. I went up to Canada to fence RMC a couple times always about the time they had Veteran's Day. The Canadas celebrate Veteran's Day by wearing red poppies, commemorating the soldiers that died in WWI. Ever since then, I try to wear one myself (when I can get away with it--it's kinda hard to wear on the uniform).

We have poppies too, on November the 11th (Armistice Day) and the couple of weeks leading up to it. They are little paper thingies sold by the Royal British Legion, which is a charity for what you would call war veterans. On November 11th there are ceremonies and people lay wreaths of poppies on war memorials and there's a minute's silence at 11:11am. The Queen even lays a wreath at the Cenotaph in central London.

[ArcherUK]

very true, have always bought and wore one on November the 11th since I was tiny.

[Louweasel]

red poppies, commemorating the soldiers that died in WWI. Ever since then, I try to wear one myself (when I can get away with it--it's kinda hard to wear on the uniform).

Tip - soldiers here when on parade for Remembrance Day (Nov 11th) take the poppy apart so they just have the red paper petal bit which is a single piece (they throw away the green stalk and the black button that holds it all together). They then fasten the red bit behind the pin-on badge on their beret so it shows around the edge.

[MikeHarm]

I don't think its everyones fault, in the whole time I went to high school for instance not even once did they even have a course on logic, or philosophy that I was able to take. I had to learn about logic from Spock in star trek. At least I could take some things in college later.
If don't even know what a logical argument is, you're reduced to emotional appeals, yelling and mindlessly reciting statistics (which are often cooked by whoever wants you to follow their side). Its hard if thats how you 'debate'- and I'd hardly call it that - to settle any argument. Its a sad state to be in. On the bright side, it seems to make for being a great talk radio or tv host.

[Louweasel]

I don't think its everyones fault, in the whole time I went to high school for instance not even once did they even have a course on logic, or philosophy that I was able to take. I had to learn about logic from Spock in star trek. At least I could take some things in college later.
If don't even know what a logical argument is, you're reduced to emotional appeals, yelling and mindlessly reciting statistics (which are often cooked by whoever wants you to follow their side). Its hard if thats how you 'debate'- and I'd hardly call it that - to settle any argument. Its a sad state to be in. On the bright side, it seems to make for being a great talk radio or tv host.

We didn't have logic or philosophy studies either, but we did spend time in English lessons learning how to logically construct and express an argument in a convincing way, and back it up with facts/evidence. We had to write discursive essays, and learnt to debate topics in a formal way. I like to think it's had an effect...

[noodle]

I don't think its everyones fault, in the whole time I went to high school for instance not even once did they even have a course on logic, or philosophy that I was able to take. I had to learn about logic from Spock in star trek. At least I could take some things in college later.
If don't even know what a logical argument is, you're reduced to emotional appeals, yelling and mindlessly reciting statistics (which are often cooked by whoever wants you to follow their side). Its hard if thats how you 'debate'- and I'd hardly call it that - to settle any argument. Its a sad state to be in. On the bright side, it seems to make for being a great talk radio or tv host.

my logic (philosophy) class sucked. it was pure memorization of a study guide (which is why i did poorly) as opposed to actually interpreting the topics. tests were super long and you couldn't really finish them without memorizing the actual test questions/answers (which he gave and i watched 90% of the class memorize just the answers). i kind of preferred to actually know the material, not the answers, and my grade was killed for that.

but the other logic (math and computer engineering) classes were easy, though.

<font color="red" size="1">danger: threadjack imminent</font>

[Soldier]

Quotes.

I've seen a lot of quotations from Kerry recently, trying to show him in a bad light.
I've seen a whole lot of quotes on here used to paint Bush as a retarded cowboy.

People seem to especially love mis-speakings, slips of the tongue, et cetera.

I propose that nobody should be allowed to search for quotes in such a manner until they have first recorded every speech of theirs for the last five years and submitted it to a panel of the people who hate them the worst, to be combed over for every little mistake. Then you can poke at public figures' speaking freely.

[Maeve_Mari]

Quotes.

I've seen a lot of quotations from Kerry recently, trying to show him in a bad light.
I've seen a whole lot of quotes on here used to paint Bush as a retarded cowboy.

People seem to especially love mis-speakings, slips of the tongue, et cetera.

I propose that nobody should be allowed to search for quotes in such a manner until they have first recorded every speech of theirs for the last five years and submitted it to a panel of the people who hate them the worst, to be combed over for every little mistake. Then you can poke at public figures' speaking freely.

That would be: "public figures speaking freely." Unless you intended: "public figures' free speech." (sorry, but it was contextual to your argument)

[Soldier]

"Public figures speaking freely", then.