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esskreemr · 05-13-2004, 03:58 PM

I think we should petition the US government to revoke any and all bans/sanctions concerning the island nation of Cuba.

This is based solely on the reasoning that having a fencing power that close to the U.S. can only be beneficial.

In addition, Cuban women are really hot.

So there you have it, two great reasons to force a normalization of relations with Cuba.

Army Fencer · 05-13-2004, 04:14 PM

I'm trying to get there for the WC in about a month. Because I'm in the military, I have to get it approved by the Department of State and the Department of Defense. There's a chance that I'll lose money I've spent on the plane ticket (quite a bit) if they decide I can't go.

I was talking to my coach about this (Polish, came over after the Berlin Wall came down), and he suggested that the best way to get rid of the communist influence is to open our borders again. There's merit to that argument. I think that given capitalist influences, the Cuban people would become more (just look at what's happened in China).

Even if the women are hot, they're also very poor. It's sad to see a state so close to our rich nation be so poor.

And if nothing else, it wouldn't be smuggling if I were to bring back a Cuban cigar for my dad. I have a hard time lying, and it would be a bit difficult to say, "I brought them from Canada," with a straight face.

Soldier · 05-13-2004, 05:00 PM

I agree. Right now Castro can say "It's all America's fault for your being so poor, they're holding you down." If we were to normalize relations, it would become quickly apparent that Castro is the one doing the holding down.

Army Fencer · 05-13-2004, 05:05 PM

I love the fact that Fidel Castro has decided not to accept US currency... hurting his own economy. I'm not sure exactly what point he's trying to make.

jeff · 05-13-2004, 05:24 PM

I say "open it up". We trade with and have official relations with the rest of the formerly or still Communist countries, why not this one. I also think this would accelerate the fall of Communism in Cuba. The best disinfectant is sunlight...

veeco · 05-13-2004, 05:58 PM

Also, one of the current problems with Cuba, fencing wise, is that they really don't have the money to travel or train at all. They basically practice (and sometimes compete, I've heard) with blades that they have broken and resoldered together. It's amazing they still manage to qualify fencers to the olympic games with such a little budget and such a little exposure to high caliber fencers.

MHS Fencer · 05-13-2004, 06:09 PM

I've been down there twice, and they have some truly top-notch epeeists. The World Cup there is a lot of fun, although don't expect much in the way of air conditioning for the venue - once when i was there the power went out in the middle of my bout, but all of the machines have a battery back-up, so we jsut kept fencing. I'm taking this year off because I didnt' think it was worth the money when some of the top-flight fencers from previous years who attended will be spending their time at home training for the Olympics.

There are ways to go there legally, and fencing (or any other amateur athletic competition) allows you to. I'm really glad that I got a chance to go there as it's like a different world (even different from other latin american countries) because of the embargo and its government. I hope that this latest break in relations doesn't hurt the cuban people - it's amazing what many of them are able to get by with. Also, as a note, Castro closed the dollar stores, he didn't stop accepting the dollar - the Cuban currency is supposedly equivalent in value to the dollar, although in practice it's about 25:1, but I'm pretty sure there are odd laws about currency exchange that I did not want to mess with when I was there.

Oh yeah, and the Cuban woman are definitely very attractive - it's even better than socal! Then again, I'm stuck up here in New England, which I hereby proclaim to be one of the ugliest sections of the country (uh-oh, what does that say for me - oh wait, i'm male - no offense to anybody in particular - this is just a general assessment)

Soldier · 05-13-2004, 06:20 PM

Hey, try coming out here to the Academy sometime before you complain about the looks of the girls in New England.

laughingduelist · 05-13-2004, 07:13 PM

Don't complain until you have seen how some people in the central midwest look. Too many fast food joints around here I guess. I consider it a point of pride that I am not a Midwest native.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 05-13-2004, 07:22 PM

Just for the info, the ladies there besides being poor, are often of ill repute. I think I heard that their STD rate is relatively higher than the US, so if you do go their for the ladies, make sure to bring a glove.

Philistine · 05-13-2004, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Just for the info, the ladies there besides being poor, are often of ill repute. I think I heard that their STD rate is relatively higher than the US, so if you do go their for the ladies, make sure to bring a glove.

Are you talking about the Airforce Academy, the Midwest, or New England?

--Philistine

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 05-13-2004, 08:20 PM

Cuba......

MHS Fencer · 05-13-2004, 08:50 PM

I used to live in the midwest, although, I wasn't quite old enough to have my eyes open - I was thinking about that when I made the post - it's true that their both eyesores, for the most part.

And as for the academy, I've met a few, and while they aren't all bad looking, there are a lot - and to top it off your male:female ratio is awful - I really do feel sorry for you guys!

Another thing about Cuba from when i was there is that everybody would be asking for equiptment. My director in my DE asked me for my glove afterwards, and there were several others who asked for epees and other equiptment. It's sad to see people being reduced to that - I can only imagine what they could do if they had more resources - I don't think the United States would ever qualify a team in men's epee again - i don't know about the others. We were warned while down there to protect our stuff, and we kept it in a group and always had somebody watching it - stuff had a way of disappearing out of people's bags, and there was even one story of somebody whose whole bag was just carted off while he wasn't there (although, as i recall, it was not an american). It really is sad to see this sort of thing, and we're only making it worse with our "embargo" (that's the polite term for it).

civiltech · 05-13-2004, 10:33 PM

The one and only time I saw the Cubans fence were at the Pan - Am Games in Winnipeg, MB in 2000. (1999?) Was there with a couple of good friends.

WOW! They were a powerhouse, especially in Sabre! I see what the issue was when Cuba was gonna house nuclear warheads that could end up on US shores in minutes...but today is a little different.

Time to kiss and make up...or maybe invade if Dubya stay in a second term? (sorry...just had to throw that in....)

afc fencer · 05-13-2004, 10:46 PM

As a cuban american whos entire family supports the trade embargo i will share what i think about the embargo.

First the reason that we first started the trade embargo was because Castro broke international law by stealing 166 propeties owend by U.S indviduals or enterprises and not providing compensation.
The main goal of the embargo was to force castro out of power.The reason we do not have a trade embargo with china is because china is making steps to reform. Cuba is not. The trade embargo is just now starting to work. Before Cuba got all its money from the soviets. When the soviets left cuba started on a downward spiral. If were are to lift the embargo without Castro making any reforms he would win and it would not help the cuban people only hurt them by letting castro stay in power longer. If the embargo is so bad then why do so many people who just left cuba support it? Most cubans know that Castro is full of lies.

civiltech · 05-13-2004, 10:48 PM

uhhhhhhh...Castro isn't in power any more...He hasn't been for a while.

More of a figurehead right now.....

I don't see how punishing the Cuban people by locking them out of the market is hurting Castro, or the present administration.

Kind of like Saddam...he wasn't starvign when the embargos were driving up the mortality rate in Iraq...

afc fencer · 05-13-2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civiltech

uhhhhhhh...Castro isn't in power any more...He hasn't been for a while.

More of a figurehead right now.....

I don't see how punishing the Cuban people by locking them out of the market is hurting Castro, or the present administration.

Kind of like Saddam...he wasn't starvign when the embargos were driving up the mortality rate in Iraq...

While Castro does not run everything anymore he still has power and what he wants done will get done.

Here is an article about the reasons to have the embargo. It can explain things much better than i can.
http://www.cubainfolinks.net/Articles/seven_bad.htm

MyrddinsPrecint · 05-13-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHS Fencer

Oh yeah, and the Cuban woman are definitely very attractive - it's even better than socal! Then again, I'm stuck up here in New England, which I hereby proclaim to be one of the ugliest sections of the country (uh-oh, what does that say for me - oh wait, i'm male - no offense to anybody in particular - this is just a general assessment)

i don't know, i don't think we're so bad looking.....

i think you're just not looking in the right spots of new england....

MHS Fencer · 05-13-2004, 11:53 PM

I wasn't talking about you in particular - i believe there was an entire thread devoted to vouching for your looks/hitting on you/being scary and stalker-esque. In terms of frequency however, beauties in newengland are diamonds in the rough (which, I suppose, makes you appreciate them all the more).

The link about ending the embargo is right that the Soviets are where Cuba got its money, and the country really was in dire straits, and then european tourism kicked in, and money started to flow in. Right now, the embargo does nothing because european currency is flowing into the country in the form of joint ventures between european firms and the cuban government. If you really want the embargo to effect change in Cuba, it must include europe as well. Such a move, however, would cut Cuba off and cause the deaths of many cubans (killing them to save them much?). By ending the embargo you can allow the miracle of trade and cultural interaction to get Castro and his administration out of power. Or at least, I believe that it will - arguments can run back and forth as to whether this is true, and in the end it's a matter of opinion as to whether it will reinforce his grip on the isle or remove him from it. The real danger, right now, is that Raul will be able to succeed Fidel and perpetuate the rule - by ending the embrago i believe that the taste of free-market economics will make the cuban people prevent Raul from taking power.

Just my 2 cents, of course.

telkanuru · 05-14-2004, 12:18 AM

Eh. The only reason Bush has put forth these new tougher on cuba law-things (

) is that he wants to court the cuban vote in Florida, because it's a swing state. I hate this 'small minority in insignificant state controls global policy' thing. Hell, I don't even see why we care that they're communist. They're not expansionist, and they treat their citizins better than some nations we support. Bah.