Burned out? Advice needed.

[ZEROFLASH]

I've been fencing for about 8 months now and I work hard at it. I fence 4-5 nights a week and for about 2-3 hours each time. I've taken all of the classes that my school offers and a few private lessons from the head instructor there. Eventhough I am a better fencer than when I started I feel as though I'm not improving at the rate I should be. sigh.....

In fact the last few times I fenced I fenced like crap. For some reason I was reacting to everything the way a begginer would. Last night after fencing so poorly I felt so bad that I wanted to just give up on this whole fencing thing.

Maybe I'm just burned out. Have any of you been through this? How many years did it take for you to be satisfied with your fencing? How did it happen for you? Was it an inch by inch thing or did it come in leaps with long periods of stagnation in between? Did you need to break though some mental barriers before your fencing skills took off?

Please help. I'm really feeling so bad and so alone about this.

Silly I know.

** Edited to get rid of an all caps title and also to make title more descriptive. Craig **

<small>[ 08-18-2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: webmaster ]</small>

[veeco]

I think that every fencer has had it's moments of discouragement and wanted to give up.

I know I have. My coach at the time talked to me and made me stay. Today I am grateful he did.

Success in any sport or activity doesn't come in leaps and bounds, but inch by inch. You have not been fencing for even a year and you think you should give up because you have not improved?

Wait, you're just saying you've improved. So what's the problem? You have not improved enough?

How long do you think it takes to become world champion? There are very few people who have enough talent to become extremely good in their first year, but if you're looking for that activity you're talented for, then obviously fencing is not the right one. Perhaps you should quit and look for something else.

If you are motivated and keep working as hard as you do now, in about 5-6 years you will notice that you have made large progress.

In 10 years you will be really good.

In the meantime, find enjoyment in the pursuit of those dreams. If you can't then you should quit fencing, because that's what you started it for in the first place, didn't you?

[HilandDoug]

AMEN, Veeco!!!

You are putting a lot of time and effort into it, Z-Flash. Every once in a while everyone hits a slump. Shake it off, take a few days off, and approach it again with a refreshed mind. We've all been there, and we all still fence.

[ZEROFLASH]

Well I just thought about quitting. I would never actually quit. That not my spirit. I guess I have just lost a lot of confidence over the last few fencing sessions. I am in good physical shape. I have always done well in sports. I hold a black belt in 2 martial arts: Taekwondo and Wing Chun. I became good at these 2 martial arts at a very fast pace but not fencing....

I think fencing is really the hardest martial art to master. And I also have to say that fencing is the fastest.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Listen to Hil and Doug <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Just take a few days off and relax.

Also, were you really good at your other martial arts within the first year? Did you have slumps then? Probably so, but you stuck with it and have done very well. Just take your time and be patient, it will come. Also, fencing is a different martial art. Don't rely on past skills to carry you through fencing. We have a kendo fighter at our fencing club whose been there about as long as you've been fencing. In fencing, I walk all over him, but the time we pulled out the kendo practice swords, I was mincemeat.

Just take your time and try to pry yourself away from those other martial arts if fencing is what you want to do. You've got a coach, talk to him. Tell him how you feel and listen to any words of encouragement. Also, pick up a good fencing book that specializes on your primary weapon and read it. I find that I fence extra well when I've been reading books on technique, tactics and the spirit of fencing.

It all takes time, you won't be Zorro, or D'Artagnan for that matter, overnight Keep working at it, you'll do just fine!

[edew]

Just accept the fact that you will get spanked left and right again and again.

Heck, it took me all of four years just to be able to do a parry-riposte in competition. It took me five years to earn my C (when there were no D's and E's at the time, so it was C or nothing -- it wasn't possible for me to earn B's or A's given the calibre of the A's and B's we had then: very good fencers).

Some people take longer, some not as long. But fencing, like anything else in life, requires that you put up with the down periods. You can quit, like Veeco said. It'll be a shame, as it's a great sport, but you can quit. If you like the sport (or whatever activity it is), you shouldn't quit. Work on it until you get better at it.

Usually, people make initial improvements which are easily recognizable. Then they reach a hump. Then they actually drop some (because they get a bit too cocky, they get lazy, or whatever), and then they ramp up again. Then they hit another plateau. This second plateau is higher than their first. Then they drop again, but the bottom is higher than the first bottom. Then they rise again, and the cycle continues.

If you love the sport like many on this board do, then push yourself to continue. Push yourself to accept the funk and move on with it.

[greenchick]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by ZEROFLASH:
<strong>I think fencing is really the hardest martial art to master. And I also have to say that fencing is the fastest.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">It is hard to master -- there's a huge body of knowledge to learn, and on top of that you're conditioning your body in ways that aren't like any other sport, even if you're already in good shape (as I imagine you are).

I've been fencing for only about the same amount of time you have. And there are times when I feel like I'm advancing in great leaps, and other times when I can't quite remember to riposte until it's too late. And yeah, it's incredibly frustrating at those times. But I also know from every other sport I've ever done that there are times when you hit a flat spot for a while. And then the time is right, you make the leap to the next stage.

I'm thinking you really don't suck....

[ZEROFLASH]

Well guys I really appreciate the input. I especially found EDEW's feedback very useful. Yes I feels as through I've dropped some. Why? I'm not sure.

greenchick, thanks so much for the last line.

[Jisahn]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by ZEROFLASH:
<strong>I hold a black belt in 2 martial arts: Taekwondo and Wing Chun. I became good at these 2 martial arts at a very fast pace but not fencing....

I think fencing is really the hardest martial art to master. And I also have to say that fencing is the fastest.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">I know many rated fencers, and the average length of time before any of them earned their first rate is 4 or 5 years. It's especially difficult if you are continually in tournaments with a large number of very experienced competitors.

Improvement truly does come by the inch. In my meager two years of training, I've competed in 4 USFA sanctioned events, and in each, I've won more bouts in the seating pools than previously. This last April, I finally won my first direct elimination round !

Just relax and take your beatings in stride By the way, I also have studied Wing Chun for several years and am curious as to your lineage. The most prevalent, Yip Man, does not have a system of belts.

[Inquartata]

Oh, yeah, all too familiar with the experience, Z!

As a coach I know likes to say "If fencing was easy everyone would be doing it".

Fencing, in comparison to most other sports, has a long, flat learning curve. And like Eric said, some pretty long plateaus, depending upon your natural physical and mental endowments, your coaching, and your attitude.

And you do sometimes seem actually to get worse just before you start the climb to the next plateau. Or at least it feels that way. It's a good sign, believe it or not...

[epeefencer74]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by ZEROFLASH:
<strong>I've been fencing for about 8 months now and I work hard at it. I fence 4-5 nights a week and for about 2-3 hours each time. I've taken all of the classes that my school offers and a few private lessons from the head instructor there. Eventhough I am a better fencer than when I started I feel as though I'm not improving at the rate I should be. sigh.....

In fact the last few times I fenced I fenced like crap. For some reason I was reacting to everything the way a begginer would. Last night after fencing so poorly I felt so bad that I wanted to just give up on this whole fencing thing.

Maybe I'm just burned out. Have any of you been through this? How many years did it take for you to be satisfied with your fencing? How did it happen for you? Was it an inch by inch thing or did it come in leaps with long periods of stagnation in between? Did you need to break though some mental barriers before your fencing skills took off?

Please help. I'm really feeling so bad and so alone about this.

Silly I know.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Hey Zero, relax man, I've been fencing for 15 yrs and I'm still not staisfied with my fencing. I should be faster, stronger etc, etc. If fence as much as you say you do, maybe you need to cut back a bit. I've always found that when I've reached a point where my fencing is going down, I take a 2 week break from physically fencing. Instead I run thru some mental excercise, like visulaizing fencening in a tournament, reviewing past excercises my coach has given me, so on and so forth. When I get back at it I find that I fence much better than b/4. Actually, I've just gotten off a bad patch myself, after the 2 week break I had, I'm even beating my own coach. So my suggestion is relax take a break and then try to have some fun when you are actually fencing, don't worry about winning or losing so much. When you enjoy what you do, you'll do your best. Cheers mate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[It]

It's been some time since I posted. Well here's one for all of ya. Fencing almost everyday for 1 to even 4 hours at a time May Not make you a better fencer. It's not only fencing you have to practice but try cardio workouts, push-ups, biking, wieghts, and etc. Work out! I mean yes it's good to practice but not to over do it. Spread your training out to other activities. It's done overseas. And you know what this is something that I don't see Americans doing alot of.

<small>[ 08-17-2002, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: It ]</small>

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

8 months isn't a long time but as long as you have progressed, that's good.
You probably fenced bad and was making beginner mistakes because you were being sloppy or lazy or both.
Now that you are aware of it, you need to work on fixing those mistakes. And that will take you to the next level, when you don't make beginner mistakes. Then you'll start making intermediate-level mistakes and you'll have to fix those. And so on.

[ZEROFLASH]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial"> By the way, I also have studied Wing Chun for several years and am curious as to your lineage. The most prevalent, Yip Man, does not have a system of belts </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">I studied under Sifu Jesus Miguella of East LA. Sifu Jesus studied under Sifu Leung Ting who studied under Grand Sifu Yip Man.

Sifu Jesus was into making money so he created a belt system (we had to pay everytime we went up in bely color). The final belt(3RD degree black belt) had the colors of the mexican flag on it. Every Cinco De Mayo he had us jump kicking pinantas blind folded. I'm not sure why since there are no jump kicks in Wing Tsun.

[135711]

you know zero, you sound an awful lot like a friend of mine. [he resembles frankenstein, when we did the irish jig, he resembled porky rabbit], anyway, to your question, i've only accumulated 6 years of fencing total, and did see some progress and strenghth building, however, i did see this as being a 10 year sport to see real results, i didn't expect to see anything good for another 4 or 5 years. thank goodness for running now, without it i'd be a tank. i'm thinking of washington dc. what's happening there?

[Shadow Fencer]

Yes Zero, I've experienced what you are going through... last year at this time and again this year now. I thought I'd be further along in terms of my performance and when I viewed the video of my last tournament (boy did I cringe and so did my teacher!!!) But, like last year, I'm taking the month of August off to clear my head (and due to foot surgery I have no choice but not to fence!) I had a long break in my fencing and have only been back into the sport for 2 years.
Fencing is tough and the rewards don't come easy. Be patient with yourself. I know this is what I need to learn as well.. patience!

Know that you are not alone in what you are feeling and that it is part of the experience in a fencer's development! (Yeah, I know, it doesn't feel good, but don't focus on the bad feeling.... for that will bring more of the bad feeling into your reality!)

[Sciurus Rex]

Something for consideration, intended for no one in particular here:

At least half the time that fencers claim they're "training" is usually spent in an unfocused state of socialization and play. Just because a warm body shows up at the fencing club doesn't mean there's any serious development taking place.

Minor personal ability differences aside, the rule is simple: You perform at the level at which you train.

It takes time.

[shyHeidi]

Hmm... I agree of course that it takes time and you won't be good overnight, I think everybody knows that. But what's really aggravating is when you see everyone around you doing better than you are even though they're not working half as hard and haven't been in it as long.
That's my situation... (slow learner, I guess) and the way I've learned to deal with it is to just enjoy losing. That way, even if you feel like you're behind, at some point you'll end up good if you keep doing it, and as long as you're having fun, who cares how long it takes?

[135711]

the typical salle has a two to three hour time block, most fencers schedule themselves so that they walk into the salle and 1. warm up for 15-20 minutes, do some footwork for another 15-20 minutes, 3. do some lunges for 10-15 minutes, 4. take a lesson for 20-30 minutes 5. find a sparring partner and fence a few bouts {whew!} that's one hour so far without a rest. I think we'll sit down for a few minutes and while I'm sitting do a few hamstring streches with some people, we may exhange a few words about the day, then we ask each other "you wanna fence?" , "yeah, okay, which weapon, foil or epee,"
"epee, grab your body cord"
"who has an extra glove"
"nah, I'm fencing foil now"
Stuff like that.
I think some people are paranoid and think we're all sitting around talking about them, when really we don't have the time or inclination to discuss anyone's personal stuff, mainly because we don't know anyones personal stuff. The one thing I said in class in April to one of my classmates was:
"hey, I really don't believe this, he's turning us all into fencers"
About 3 days later he had another hissy fit, self-distruction again.

<small>[ 08-19-2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: 135711 ]</small>