The appel ... what's the point?

[Jisahn]

Although I have used it on occasion, I have never elicited a response from anyone save newbies. Quite honestly, I no longer fall for it either.

Who has some in depth knowledge of this peculiar psychological tactic? Have you ever used it successfully in a tournament?

Is there something I'm missing? What's the point?!

**Edited to get rid of an all caps title. C'mon, don't shout in your titles, it gets very annoying. Craig**

<small>[ 08-18-2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: webmaster ]</small>

[swordsen]

If you do an old classical style ballestra it is a good disguise. In general though iit can be used like anyother piece of footwork to set up a response. Dor three sets of Appel, appel, lunge and I'll bet the next time you try it your opponent will be attacking into your second appel. (at least if he or she pays attention)So it can set up a parry riposte.
by itself it is nothing, but in combination with other moves and with a plan it can be quite usefull.

[swordsen]

doubled up, sorry.

<small>[ 08-15-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: swordsen ]</small>

[Gav]

The thing about all 'feints' is that they must be convincing and really they must be part of some plan that you have in your head - 2nd intention.

The Appel is really an 'anouncement' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> that you intend to do something, the idea being that you don't [do what they're expecting] and catch your opponent out when he reacts to the Appel.

Personally I don't use them.

An Appel by itself is nothing (like all feints). An Appel with 2nd intention is a plan.

Note: I've used the term 'feint' broadly - I'm not necessarily talking about 'fencing feints'. Hope that made sense.

[veeco]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by Gav:
<strong>
The Appel is really an 'anouncement' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> that you intend to do something, the idea being that you don't [do what they're expecting] and catch your opponent out when he reacts to the Appel.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Mouuuaaaah!

[Sildar]

I rarely use the appel by itself unless my opponent is extremely twitchy and overly sensitive to my footwork. However, I frequently use an appel accompanied by an extension to make a feint which is far more convincing than a simple extension by itself. You are far more likely to draw a parry (or a counterattack in epee) that way.

I believe that Gav was saying that you can also use the appel to manipulate the distance because it simulates an advance, or some other agressive action; if the opponent responds, you have effectively faked them out with your footwork, which you can use to set up a second intention attack. This is also a good use for the appel. However, in order to make your opponent respond, you usually need to add a little body language to make it convincing; few fencers will react much to a simple foot tap without any accompanying body motion.

[MHS Fencer]

An appel is a single tempo, an advance, a retreat, these are all two tempos. The appel can be used to throw off timing by one tempo (or half a tempo as some people see it) and can thus help you get a jump on your opponent if he doesn't match the jump in time.

[Inquartata]

Fruit is good for you.

[MikeHarm]

I always thought it had two uses, to spook newer fencers, and for beating people on timing, altering the tempo of the appel in relation to the move done following it. Slow appel fast lunge, fast appel slow attack that sort of thing.

[Kodiak Kid]

saw it work "in reverse" in class this week and got a chuckle out of it. I've got a newbie that is always doing an appel for no apparent reason, ie; doesn't follow it up with any discernable action. So naturally, everybody ignores it. So, he's fencing with an intermediate level opponent and Lo and Behold he snaps off an appel followed by a smartly executed advance lunge and it caught the intermediate level guy competely flat footed. Very sweet. So rather than using it to set up an action, maybe he's been lulling us all to sleep with it. Maybe....

[epeemike81]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by Kodiak Kid:
<strong>saw it work "in reverse" in class this week and got a chuckle out of it. I've got a newbie that is always doing an appel for no apparent reason, ie; doesn't follow it up with any discernable action. So naturally, everybody ignores it. So, he's fencing with an intermediate level opponent and Lo and Behold he snaps off an appel followed by a smartly executed advance lunge and it caught the intermediate level guy competely flat footed. Very sweet. So rather than using it to set up an action, maybe he's been lulling us all to sleep with it. Maybe....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">That IS using it to set up an action....

you get them used to a pattern, then break it.

-m

[Jisahn]

Excellent advice all around. Thanks! Can't wait to try it out!

[DamedEscrime]

I do this occasionally to either startle the opponent or to let him/her THINK I'm about to do something. Sometimes it's a stall. Other times I'll do it a couple times with no follow up action and then again with an attack. It is especially effective on beginners. LOL

[135711]

it used to be part of the classical resume, however, it has lapsed into disuse. the appel should be done very well, i have never used it, to be completely effective in frightening your oppenent for the millisecond it would take to touch them with your epee on the knee, you have to be very fast.