Hi - noob fencer w/ questions

[zark00]

and just saying hi - always good form for the new guy on forums eh?

So I just started fencing a month ago, and really think I will continue.
I kind of have an akward feel for it now, and I like it!

My questions are pretty basic as is my technique :P

How long will it take for me to be able to really fence someone?

When should I think about buying things like shoes (which are kinda pricey) and my own jacket, mask, weapon?

My salle has open nights on night that I don't have class, and I would like to go and practice, but being such a beginner I'm a alittle intimidated to bother 'real' fencers with my clumsiness.

Of course the coaches are great etc. etc. and I'm sure they would encourage me to go, so I'm more asking a beginning fencing etiquette question I suppose.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by zark00

How long will it take for me to be able to really fence someone?

that depends on what you mean by "really fence". if you mean electric bouting, i suppose that depends on when your coach will allow you to suit up and have at it. if you mean fencing someone and having a good chance at winning, that really depends on who you're fencing and how much effort you've put into your training.

Originally Posted by zark00

When should I think about buying things like shoes (which are kinda pricey) and my own jacket, mask, weapon?

whenever you're tired of using public gear and you think you have committed yourself enough to the sport to warrant putting that much money into it.

after all, it'd be stupid to buy full gear and quit the next day.

Originally Posted by zark00

My salle has open nights on night that I don't have class, and I would like to go and practice, but being such a beginner I'm a alittle intimidated to bother 'real' fencers with my clumsiness.

Of course the coaches are great etc. etc. and I'm sure they would encourage me to go, so I'm more asking a beginning fencing etiquette question I suppose.

if this is supposed to be a question, i think your best answer would be to ask whoever's in charge if they think you're ready because you're eager to learn and experience is a good teacher or something along those lines. this answer is related to the first question, so the situation kind of depends. i suppose the bottom line is that one of the best ways to get better is to fence people better than you, win or lose. you just need to make sure that in doing so, it is not a frustrating event and you get something out if it. if you do so, it doesn't matter if you're the newest of new fencing an olympic fencer. you'll learn something.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Start with a glove, if you still like it, get a weapon, if it still seems justified, get a jacket and mask, when your ready to compete, get yourself knickers and a plastron. Dont worry about shoes until you start winning alot.

[esskreemr]

Start with a weapon. That way you'll have something to practice with at home. As far as fencing other people, everybody started as a newbie. Don't be afraid to ask a more advanced fencer for a bout. Make sure to approach the senior fencer on one knee, with your head bowed (so as not to make eye contact), and holding your blade by both hands above your head "please sir/ma'am, may I humbly request a proper drubbing by your hand".

Just kidding. Best way to enhance what your coach is teaching you is by fencing someone better than you, as long as your ready for it. Some fencers want to start bouting their first day. There are so many bad habits you can pick up if you are not ready, and they can take years to train out of you; trust me, I know from experience. If you do bout, just stay focused on your basics and stay controlled. If you start flailing your point around hoping to catch anything, you're going to hurt your technique alot more than you will help it. You're likely to tick the other fencer off as well. Guess who won't be saying yes next time...

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

And whatever you do, dont try flicking until your coach says so! I learned how early, and it negatively affected me so bad, not to mention the tennis elbow.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by zark00

How long will it take for me to be able to really fence someone?

Quite a while. Be patient.

When should I think about buying things like shoes (which are kinda pricey) and my own jacket, mask, weapon?

Definitely buy a glove. My own experience was that I bought my own gear when I got tired of using club gear. Good indoor court shoes will do fine for fencing. Work on learning the sport first, but you definitely want to have your own glove from the start rather than sweat into a damp smelly glove someone else has just discarded.

My salle has open nights on night that I don't have class, and I would like to go and practice, but being such a beginner I'm a a little intimidated to bother 'real' fencers with my clumsiness.

Of course the coaches are great etc. etc. and I'm sure they would encourage me to go, so I'm more asking a beginning fencing etiquette question I suppose.

You are a "real" fencer--a very new "real" fencer. Most more experienced fencers will probably be glad to run drills with you, as this helps them keep their own fundamentals solid. There may be a few who are only interested in bouting. Avoid them at this stage of your training. (Anyone who consistently declines to help a beginner is in violation of salle etiquette, IMO.)

Welcome!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

And whatever you do, dont try flicking until your coach says so! I learned how early, and it negatively affected me so bad, not to mention the tennis elbow.

Hmmm...I must have missed the part where zark00 said he was fencing foil...

[The0ne]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Hmmm...I must have missed the part where zark00 said he was fencing foil...

he could fence epee. . . And those whip-around sabre hits are pretty close to flicks!

the first thing is, if you are a fencer, you have an absolute right to ask ANYONE to fence. Some people might be snooty and not fence with you if they are "too good" but try, try again! Just ask people until the'll fence, learn what you can from the bout, then try it out on the next person you ask to fence. It depends on what your coaches style is, some coaches wait a year before bouting, while other let you bout almost right away. . . Buy stuff as soon as you need it (ie get tired of the sweaty crappy beginner stuff!!!)

have fun!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by The0ne

he could fence epee. . . And those whip-around sabre hits are pretty close to flicks!

No, it's the other way 'round: flicks resemble sabre cuts! We were doing them long before the flick was invented, after all.

[morael]

As far as how long it take to really fence someone... One of the keys is: how much does losing bother you? If you can deal with losing to anyone, then you can fence and learn from anyone. You'll start getting a good hit in now and then, and more and more...

On free fencing nights... I'm not a great fencer, but fencing rookies gives me a chance to hone my skills under less pressure, so I don't mind it. In that situation, I might suggest to them something to work on, like lunging, and I'll work on my defenses. The main courtesy you can give is to be respectful of your "elders"--question them, but at least listen and try it out--and don't monopolize any one person for too long. BTW, I don't mind the much lamented "newbie flailing." I pay 'em back with boring lectures and drills.

If there's another rookie there, you can ask one of the experienced fencers to assign the two of you a drill, and work on that.

You can also watch other bouts and listen carefully to the referee, as that will exercise your eye and you'll be learning the rules, vocabulary and actions of fencing.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by zark00

and just saying hi - always good form for the new guy on forums eh?

So I just started fencing a month ago, and really think I will continue.
I kind of have an akward feel for it now, and I like it!

My questions are pretty basic as is my technique :P

How long will it take for me to be able to really fence someone?

When should I think about buying things like shoes (which are kinda pricey) and my own jacket, mask, weapon?

My salle has open nights on night that I don't have class, and I would like to go and practice, but being such a beginner I'm a alittle intimidated to bother 'real' fencers with my clumsiness.

Of course the coaches are great etc. etc. and I'm sure they would encourage me to go, so I'm more asking a beginning fencing etiquette question I suppose.

get your own stuff when you know for sure that you're in it for a while, i.e. when you can't imagine quitting. stuff is pretty expensive. i just spent $500 this week and its not even FIE stuff...or even a whole kitbag!!

and PLEASE fence the experienced people as much as you can. they won't ever say no. you'll progress so much faster.

[zark00]

Cool! Thanks guys - I really appreciate it.

I'm fencing foil btw - I've been told that most people learn to fence foil, and then specialize in a weapon when they get some skill - true? I'm like 6feet even, not super tall or lanky, think I could fence epee eventually?

I'm gathering it may not be ridiculous for me to get a glove and a weapon - I don't want to be the beginner guy who shows up with a bunch of new stuff before he knows how to use it you know?

I know the 'real fencer' question was kind fo silly, but the answers were exactly what I needed. I didn't want to walk into open night and start asking for tips and bouts if it's just not done. It sounds like fencers in general (if ya'all are a good indication) are pretty cool people eager to help a noob out.

I have decided to continue on from my beginning class to the intermediate - or continuation class. So I definitely am liking this. I don't even mind that my quads feel like jello (that's getting better fast though!)

I prob have 7,000 more questions in the future. Thanks again for all the feedback, very helpful and really funny

[blue_falcon]

Dude, don't worry about asking people to fence. They WILL fence you. And getting your own glove and foil (I'm assuming a dry -- non-electric foil?) is a GOOD thing. At least you can practice your bladework and whatnot at home.

Oh, and one other thing that REALLY helped me was first going to some competitions to just WATCH. Make sure you watch those who win and what they do TO win. You'll see quite a lot of moves and whatnot that would be of great help. And don't be afraid to try out those moves. I'm sure they'll seem "advanced" but if you ask the more experienced fencers how they're done (and done right), they'll tell you.

Oh, and since you're fencing foil, going to a competition as a spectator is VERY instructive. This whole right of way ("priority" in here in the Frozen North) thingy was damned alien to me until I went to a competition and watched some high level bouts.

And yes. Drills may seem boring after a while but, man, they DO help. Of course, nothing teaches like experience so, like everyone's said so far, go fence the more experienced fencers. As for the "beginner's flail", you'll be cured soon enough of that. I noticed that flailing wasn't working and that I kept getting hit so I learned to stop said flailing.

As for epee, there really is no height requirement. Yes, it is said that height helps with epee but height advantage can be negated by good footwork, good blade work, and just plain quickness. The top epee fencer at our club is a relatively short guy but man, his blade work is quite amazing and he's darned quick. You'll learn soon enough that while height may give you a seeming advantage, it's not something you can count on. I have (or had) the bruises to prove this.

As for fencing foil .... yes stick with that until you're comfortable enough to switch to something else -- IF you ever do. I think I fenced foil like 3 months and then switched to epee. If you'll want to fence epee, make sure you get the parrying aspects of foil down properly. That is, of course, if you don't want to continuously get hit with a epee point! If you're fencing other beginners, I've noticed that they tend to concentrate on their offense to the detriment of their defense. A nice parry-riposte can't be beat!

Congrats and welcome to the addictive world of fencing.

[Inquartata]

Bear in mind that at least for sabre very few of our top fencers, male or female, started in foil. It's not the prerequisite that a lot of traditionalists insist it is. Start in whatever weapon calls to you, unless (a) none do or (b) your coach refuses to let you. Some are that way, alas...

[The0ne]

Inq, you're wrong. He should start in foil, because he HAS to stay in foil!!! Trust me, foil is the way to go, don't listen to these Epee and Sabre types!

[zark00]

Saber does interest me - I imagine because the head is a target right?

So at the place I go foil and epee are taught in the group classes - foil for begginers then your choice (I think) from intermediate on up.
Saber is only taught by private lesson - and I'm not sure if that's because there isn't enough interest to fill a group - or maybe they spcialize more in epee and foil?

How tough is saber? I've heard you need have excellent footwork to be decent at saber.

[AllezCat]

Hmmm, sounds like you fence at my club (Rain City Fencing Center). Either that or another club somewhere has their program set up very similar to ours...

Regarding etiquette during open practice, I agree with what's been said by others. With a very few exceptions, there is only one acceptable answer to the question "Would you like to fence?", no matter who's asking. Unless a top fencer is preparing for an important competition very soon and has very limited practice time, they'll be happy to fence with you. After all, today's beginner could be the club's next national champion in a few years, and they won't get there without people to fence. When you first come in on an open night, get somebody to introduce you around.

For equipment purchases: Whether you buy from a club that resells equipment like mine does, or from a mail-order vendor, you can usually get a discount if you buy a complete set (typically 10-15%). So if you can afford to spend about $250 and you're reasonably certain you're going to stick with it long enough to justify that, you may as well get the complete set. If you want to buy one piece at a time, one school of thought says to buy what you'd rather not be sharing with a bunch of other people -- first a mask, then a glove, then probably a weapon. Knickers are required for competition. Shoes are about the last fencing-specific equipment that people buy, since they tend to be fairly expensive and don't last very long. A good pair of athletic shoes will work as well. There are lots of other threads on this message board about alternatives to fencing shoes.

All three weapons require good footwork, but it's emphasized more in sabre because of the way the game is currently played. You have to be able to set distance traps for your opponent, judge the distance accurately for them, and set them up in real time -- not much time for maneuvering.

Anyway, go ahead and fence at open practices, go ahead and buy the equipment you think you need (it's only money, right?). And if you are at RCFC, don't forget our anniversary party tonight, and come watch the Rain City Open this weekend!

Greg Jones
Rain City Fencing Center

[Phoenix]

Yeah! Welcome to Fencing ^_~! Definitly, DEFINITLY ask questions to you coach or instructors on whatever you have on fencing. They would be more than happy to help you. Definitly get a glove if you want to stay, but I would keep away from the weapons for a while. You never know what you will end up with. We also start out with foil in our club. I did that for a year and one of my instructors showed me Epee and I thought I was going to chose that after I finished with my intermediate levels, but THEN I went to fencing summer camp and fell in love with sabre. *sigh* sabre, sabre, sabre. *ahem*
As you see, you never know. Definitly start to try weapons out when you think you are ready. Each weapon has some different equipment. Like masks. Sabre have different masks than foil and epee and cords and body gear like lames. Have patience and take your time. I stayed in one class twice because I didn't think I fully understood what they had taught me, and it helped. Ask your coach if he/she thinks you are ready to try electric bouts, or if not, just, as they said before, go to open night and watch and listen. Ask questions. I hope you stay for a long, long time

[Phoenix]

also look at other threads on this forum for others questions you have

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by The0ne

Inq, you're wrong.

Well, there, now, you see? You just ruined your own credibility right there. Everyone knows that I'm never wrong!

He should start in foil, because he HAS to stay in foil!!! Trust me, foil is the way to go, don't listen to these Epee and Sabre types!

Ah, ah, ah, circulus in demonstrando...how like a foilist. You guys devote so much attention to those circular parries that it starts to bleed into other areas of your lives!