need a coach

[silentoutcry]

I just ordered a beginners foiling set off the intenet last night because my friend used to fence and wanted to get back into it but didnt have anybody to do it with. We were wondering how we could get a coach or a club going in our town because the nearest club is 2 and a half hours away and we cant drive that far every day to practice.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by silentoutcry

I just ordered a beginners foiling set off the intenet last night because my friend used to fence and wanted to get back into it but didnt have anybody to do it with. We were wondering how we could get a coach or a club going in our town because the nearest club is 2 and a half hours away and we cant drive that far every day to practice.

ok

first, read these threads about starting clubs and whatnot: 1 2 3 4

second, good luck getting a coach. i'd suggest talking to people in your community. you can try and find an ex fencer who might be willing to help. other than that, you'd have to have something good to offer a coach to actually move to you and i'm willing to bet you don't have anything (read: lots of $$$$$). (i'm president of a university team that has talent and does reasonably well without one (we beat clubs with and without coaches and the occasional varsity team and place consistently well at nacs and such); we've been looking around a bit for one and nobody's biting. getting a coach to come to you is quite a task)

[Swordmaster]

A. Start a nonprofit corp.
B. Get a Grant for $30,000 a year
C. Post a salary of $20,000 a year to start with all lesson proceeds to go to the coach.
D. Weed out the bad ones, because you will have a butt load of people applying for the job.
The problem with fencing clubs is that they all want something for nothing, and it does take a lot of money to get one going successfully. Sure you can limp along with some guy the used to fence foil in college 10 years ago, but that drives a truck for a living now. But if you really want a COACH, you have to buy one.

[silentoutcry]

Thanks alot swordmaster I will definately try. I was thinking about trying to get the local YMCA to start a club since they have alot of special interest stuff so we will see how that goes but thanks again for the help.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

A. Start a nonprofit corp.
B. Get a Grant for $30,000 a year
C. Post a salary of $20,000 a year to start with all lesson proceeds to go to the coach.
D. Weed out the bad ones, because you will have a butt load of people applying for the job.
The problem with fencing clubs is that they all want something for nothing, and it does take a lot of money to get one going successfully. Sure you can limp along with some guy the used to fence foil in college 10 years ago, but that drives a truck for a living now. But if you really want a COACH, you have to buy one.

this sounds like a solid plan to me.
A and B are difficult, though, and probably a little out of the league of two guys looking for someone to help them out.
(wish i could do something like this to get ourselves a coach)

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

A. Start a nonprofit corp.
B. Get a Grant for $30,000 a year
C. Post a salary of $20,000 a year to start with all lesson proceeds to go to the coach.
D. Weed out the bad ones, because you will have a butt load of people applying for the job.
The problem with fencing clubs is that they all want something for nothing, and it does take a lot of money to get one going successfully. Sure you can limp along with some guy the used to fence foil in college 10 years ago, but that drives a truck for a living now. But if you really want a COACH, you have to buy one.

Just, as a test of the validity of point D, the butt loads of applicants, how many of you are coaches that would consider moving to Clemson, SC to coach the University's Fencing Club for a salary of $20,000 a year + lesson fees, no more, no less?

[Swordmaster]

That's what he would need for Henderson KY, Clemsen SC is another $100,000

[wflaschka]

As a coach, I would consider applying for a position at $20k/year + lesson fees. Realistically, though, I'm pretty comfortable where I am, and it would be difficult to relocate (family growth). If the opportunity emerged 3-4 years from now, I'd probably try for it.

For that sort of offer, you would get a lot of interest. Read about the Birmingham club doing something similar ($$ amounts not mentioned), 6th paragraph: http://www.fencingclub.org/coaches.html

Johns Hopkins (?) floated a similar offer for their varsity team a few years back -- $24k if I remember. I suppose they filled the position.

There is a lot of good overseas talent in China, Romania, Hungary that would jump at the opportunity. They need only hear about it. Any additional job placement, visa, or language help you could give them would only make their decision easier.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by wflaschka

For that sort of offer, you would get a lot of interest. Read about the Birmingham club doing something similar ($$ amounts not mentioned), 6th paragraph: http://www.fencingclub.org/coaches.html

ah yes but that paragraph mentions the fact that the coaches got 200 queries, not that the club got 200 coaches knocking at their door. sounds to me like there's a much greater demand than supply.

[wflaschka]

Originally Posted by noodle

ah yes but that paragraph mentions the fact that the coaches got 200 queries, not that the club got 200 coaches knocking at their door. sounds to me like there's a much greater demand than supply.

True enough -- especially for these coaches. They seem highly credentialed, and I know they have been very productive in making good fencers: 2nd(?) place Crescent City Open, foil, one of their students went from D to B, and later finaled at the U14 Nationals; the woman coach Hongyun Sun won the women's, and I have video of her performance at the 88 Olympics.

But the main thing is, this sort of overseas "in-sourcing" is being done. The original posting generated 200 messages, and probably more than a few were serious offers from clubs. If one club can do it, then more clubs can do it.

The latest USFA CD-ROM had a subdirectory full of PDF files (/h_fiorentini) -- including an "Employment contract" for clubs to offer coaches. So, it's being done.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by TooLoftheDeviL

Just, as a test of the validity of point D, the butt loads of applicants, how many of you are coaches that would consider moving to Clemson, SC to coach the University's Fencing Club for a salary of $20,000 a year + lesson fees, no more, no less?

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

That's what he would need for Henderson KY, Clemsen SC is another $100,000

I can't see these fellows getting any coaches to move to Henderson, Kentucky for $20,000 or even finding anyone already in Henderson. I'd reverse the two statements and suggest that it would take the $100,000 before you'd see a "buttload" of coaching applicants to go to Henderson, KY while you'd see a good number of fair coaches in Clemson, South Carolina for only $20,000.

[Artisan]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

I can't see these fellows getting any coaches to move to Henderson, Kentucky for $20,000 or even finding anyone already in Henderson. ...... you'd see a good number of fair coaches in Clemson, South Carolina for only $20,000.

The key is the lesson fees: say for example: 8 lessons / day 5 days / week @ $20...Thats another $32,000 per year...Coaching (unfortunately) seems to be like waiting tables - the real income is direct from the consumer, not through the establishment. My coach is paid a an insulting pittance, considering his qualifications, by the local university - and "Ivy" to be their assistant coach. He does it for the health insurance - His real income is in private lessons at several area clubs - and some meagre income from referreeing. And this man is already past "retirement " age.

[Swordmaster]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

I can't see these fellows getting any coaches to move to Henderson, Kentucky for $20,000 or even finding anyone already in Henderson. I'd reverse the two statements and suggest that it would take the $100,000 before you'd see a "buttload" of coaching applicants to go to Henderson, KY while you'd see a good number of fair coaches in Clemson, South Carolina for only $20,000.

Boy you folks just cant take a joke. Any time you see one or these at the end of a line you should know not to take it seriously.

On a serious note though, wflaschka is right, you can get top level coaches out of the old eastern block countries and the far east for what we would consider a paltry sum in the US. Most Americans have a very spoiled view of what it takes to live. Many are just given room, board and the income they generate from lessons. The problem with this senario is that once they are here for a while and have listened to the rederick of the spoiled Americans they dump the club that found them, brought them here, taught them english, housed them for free, fed them at their own table and provided a space for them to gain their repetation as a great coach. Granted the club should at some point start to share in the earnings of the club with the coach, but first there has to be earnings. What so many fencers do not realize is that the dues and floor fees that most clubs charge are not even enough to make a living off of. Most clubs are started as a labor of love for the sport, not as a get rich slowly scheem.
Also, wflaschka again was paying attention when he saw that my plan included the income from private lessons (being a coach he would know that).

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

Boy you folks just cant take a joke. Any time you see one or these at the end of a line you should know not to take it seriously.

I can take a joke! I was commenting only on whether life would be better in Henderson or Clemson. I'd prefer free in Clemson and University life over the hills o'Kuntecky!!

[fencingguy]

The real money for coaches actually doesn't come from Lessons, it comes from classes. If you have a class that lasts for one hour 2 times a week and each participant in charged $30 for each session, with 20 people in the class, thats $600 for an hour of work, or $1200 a week, for just 2 hours of work. The other thing is, you don't want to give the coach full lesson or class fees, you need to maintain some money in the club funds for expenses like equipment (for the classes), or machines or rent for your space. One of the best ways I've heard for running a club is the Fencing Academy of Westchester. They offer their coaches a percentage of their lessons and classes based on the number of years they've been coaching there. It provides incentive to increase the number of people in the club, and also gives the coaches a series of raises to look forward to. This kind of set up, for an established club is a great way to run things. To start a club and find a coach the above suggestions sound pretty good. To get a top level coach though, you may have to be able to provide them with a more permanent set up than it sounds like you have.

[acfencing]

ALl I can say is good luck! Good coaches are hard to find.

We are lucky to have Ricahrd, Chuck and Matt our area they are pretty decent coaches. I'm looking into going to Arizonia for College as they are really on the ball with a coaches that sem to know what they are doing

[noodle]

to add to the air of seriousness that was posted previously by my teammate, here are a few more details:
1) i'd say that we are moderately interested in working something out to get a coach. not top priority, we aren't actively hunting one down, but if the opportunity arose like it could from this thread ( ), we'd take it seriously .
2) we're already a fully operational club. we have our own public gear, space for practice, etc etc. we don't need to be established; we already are. we're also producing reasonable results considering we're a big mess of style inbreeding. the people who teach here learned to fence here. some of us go to other coaches whenever we can, but we'd rather prefer to have one here for us.
3) there's outside community interest in fencing. simple enough to establish a non-university (due to imposed club restrictions) club to work over the local crowd. restriction on that would probably be use of the university club's gear. space would probably still be useable.
4) could possibly teach at the university, local tech school, or high school if you actually got a degree in something that isn't fencing as a secondary job (or teach fencing as a secondary job, whatever).

if there's a coach interested, let me know
if not, thats fine too. just figured i wouldn't waste an opportunity.

silentoutcry: good luck finding a real coach. like i said before, i believe your best bet would to scour the community for an ex-fencer and try and get him to help teach you.

[hpfencing]

To help boost your fencers you might consider having a clinic or camp for just your local people. It would be a good way to defeat the inbreeding that might be going on.

If you are interested in setting something like this up please let me know and I might be able to help out or reccoemend a few people that could.

[noodle]

shoot, i think thats directed at me
i can't tell, too many people already talking in this thread

we have at least two clinic a year and finding someone willing to do a clinic isn't a problem. its not really the same, you know?

[hpfencing]

Yes I understand that it is different. It's just all I can do to help you out.