Fencing on the Sabbath

[D'Artag-NOT]

I've just finished reading the "Gay Games" thread and obviously there are a number of posters out there with pretty strong religious convictions. Question: What do you, personally, do when fencing competitions conflict with your Sabbath observance?

In my division (Orange Coast) most competitions are held on Sundays, which is my Sabbath. The way I handle it is this: I go to the 5 PM Saturday night Mass at the Roman Catholic church in my neighborhood. I participate in the communal worship except for receiving Communion as I'm not Roman Catholic (I make what we Episcopalians call a "spiritual communion" instead).

Just out of curiosity--and not wishing to start any flame wars about Sabbath observance generally--is this an issue for anyone else out there, and if so what do you do?

[Army Fencer]

I'm religious, and I have the same problem. I hate the fact that all the epee competitions are on Sundays. Very few Protestant churchs meet on Sunday, too. Unfortunately, I've had to go to a service with a weaker message in order to go to services on Saturday.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'll stay moderate on this one. I dont see why so many competitions have to be on sunday morning, I think this is why alot of sunday tournaments are not as big.

[jeff]

I had a college teammate who was an Orthodox Jew, and couldn't compete on Friday night or on Saturday.

We need another day off from work/school that has no religious affiliation so everyone can fence! Wednesdays would break up the week nicely...

[D'Artag-NOT]

I dont see why so many competitions have to be on sunday morning,

Well, when I was teaching the high school class at my church, a lot of my students ran into the same problem with other commitments (especially one very dedicated soccer player). There seems to be a cultural expectation that nothing important happens on Sundays, so they're free. My young soccer player went to a lot of 8 o'clock services on his soccer mornings, and I was very pleased that he maintained his commitment.

[CutLass]

We need another day off from work/school that has no religious affiliation so everyone can fence! Wednesdays would break up the week nicely...

Hear! Hear!

[telkanuru]

Hehe. Dump all your classes on 2 days. Had class tues/thurs 8-2. And no more. It was... relaxing...

I too have a jewish friend who cannot fence on friday/sat. This is problimatic because collegate meets tend to fall on saturdays. I'm trying to convince her that one would be allowed to *defend* a temple on the sabbath, so swords are OK. Oh well. When'd the sabbath get switched anyway? And why?

Fencing > God for me. Agnostics have it best.

[prototoast]

Hehe. Dump all your classes on 2 days. Had class tues/thurs 8-2. And no more. It was... relaxing...

I too have a jewish friend who cannot fence on friday/sat. This is problimatic because collegate meets tend to fall on saturdays. I'm trying to convince her that one would be allowed to *defend* a temple on the sabbath, so swords are OK. Oh well. When'd the sabbath get switched anyway? And why?

Fencing > God for me. Agnostics have it best.

Yeshiva doesn't fence on saturdays. They schedule their competitions around it.

[telkanuru]

Yeah, but the Big One, etc. do. Oh, and I'd amend the agnostics have it best. They have it best, except when it comes to the Last Judgement thing.

[Purple Fencer]

Never bothered me...last time I attended Mass (aside from my mother's funeral in 1997) was back in 1980 or so...I figure God can deal with it.

Dartag-NOT....do I know you? You've probably walked by my table at Orange Coast events...PM me if you wish...I'm curious...although given your avatar and profile age I have a guess...

[Soldier]

Call me a bad Christian, but I don't do much on Sundays. I do a lot more worship/prayer/fellowship/etc. on Monday and Tuesday evenings than I could get out of a given church service on a Sunday, so I figure I'm good there. Strictly observing any sabbath has never really bothered me, as the main point is to spend time with God, praying, in worship, etc. I try to do these things pretty much constantly, so I don't really feel I need to dedicate one specific, entire day to it.

As for why it switched: Christianity was for a long time considered just another sect of Judaism. Early Christians started observing the sabbath on Sundays instead of Saturdays in honor of the day that Christ rose again.

[laughingduelist]

They have it best, except when it comes to the Last Judgement thing.

I think that we will get the chance to recant don't we? Or if you were baptized a catholic (like myself) I think you end up in purgatory instead of hell. I could be wrong though.

[telkanuru]

I think that we will get the chance to recant don't we? Or if you were baptized a catholic (like myself) I think you end up in purgatory instead of hell. I could be wrong though.

It depends when you die, I think. There's all that mess with the 4 riders and the beast, and the ***** of babylon and the burning, and the fire, and the death. Then there's the pit of fire if you fail the last judgement. I dunno if we get a repentance. I think it has to occur before you die *and* you have to choose the right sect. And what does the bible say? 144,000 will survive? Out of what, 1 billion christians? Don't like the odds, eh?

I say fence on sundays and then do footwork on the coals of hell after you pass on! Huzzah!

[laughingduelist]

My favorite quote on this is Voltaire. While he was on his deathbed a priest asked him to renounce satan. Voltaire responded "come now my good man, now isn't the time to be making enemies."

[Musketeer]

I would have no problem fencing Sunday afternoon, but the only way I could or would on Sunday morning would be if I had time to attend Mass Saturday evening.

[vegan]

Hi all,
I've not only had to deal with this once or twice meself (I was once a much more observant jew), but I've watched with several fencers (of more then one religion).
Yes, Yeshiva often does not fence on sat . . . but thier schedule is not as strong as it could be!! Mixing any religion and sports is hard in modern society- there is often not enough time (or times are on top of each other!).
A quick story . . . I used to try to compete in school during pesach (passover) . . . This was quite hard as I didn't often eat well during that holiday (I don't like matzo all that much!). I had a friend in school who was muslim . . . fencing during ramadan (sp?) is quite hard for him!
I like Jeff's idea - free up wed!
Cheers,
B.

[MikeHarm]

I haven't attended church regularly in over 25 years. No problems on any date unless work conflicts with it.

[Inquartata]

I guess I don't see a conflict. The Commandment regarding the Sabbath specifies that you shall do no work on it; it doesn't say anything about play. Fencing, even in competition, is play, no?

Do any of us think the Sabbath is supposed to be spent in bed ( "rest" ) or in a marathon 24-hour prayer session? No? So you can eat, right? Yet food has to be prepared, that might qualify as "work". Dressing, shaving, etc. for church might so qualify as well. Making your bed? Shovelling the driveway so you can get the car out to get to church?

I'm just not sure that the 4th is specific enough or obvious enough in its meaning as to say that it precludes fencing...

[jeff]

Inq, Orthodox Jews interpret this strictly enough that they will not handle money, turn an electric switch on or off, light a fire &etc, Reform far less so. I believe some Southern Baptist groups sharply limit activities on the Sabbath. So, the Commandment doesn't specify but (as usual) interpretation varies widely

[Inquartata]

So it's the same old story: the self-appointed "holy men" again...