Strange sitch from my sabre student

[Purple Fencer]

K'...when we're drilling on simple parry-riposte actions and I cut to either her three or four line, and feels her arm move and the blade contact. However, just recently she started reporting that if she went up to a five parry she would feel the physical contact and KNOW her arm was up....but she could not "feel" her arm had been raised.

This is causing her enough concern that her 5 parfries are not as good as they once had been....anhy suggestions? I've never experienced this myself...

[Inquartata]

What? You mean she's experiencing numbness, as in inability to feel the arm? Or that she's just not thinking about it moving as it does so? Or...?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

What? You mean she's experiencing numbness, as in inability to feel the arm? Or that she's just not thinking about it moving as it does so? Or...?

NO...it's not either of those...it's more like she's not aware that her arm is up, even though she KNOWS and SEE it up...like it's someone else's arm.

[whtouche]

Like a muscle memory thing, in that she parries without thinking about it?

I was under the impression this was a good thing..

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Like a muscle memory thing, in that she parries without thinking about it?

I was under the impression this was a good thing..

It may be...I'll have ot ask her that tonight...but she doesn;t report the same situation with her lateral parries...just the head one...it might be specific to that position tho...

[Peach]

Weird - sounds like the neurological phenomenon Oliver Sacks described in A Leg To Stand On. It can result in patients who have had stroke or other trauma to a limb. I'm sure this isn't the case for your student, but it is odd nonetheless.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Your student should see a doctor. This is not a normal situation and needs to be evaluated.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by D'Artag-NOT

Your student should see a doctor. This is not a normal situation and needs to be evaluated.

But I'm not even certain it IS a physical issue...there's nothing to indicate any limitation of movement or any other kind of physical impariment...it seems to be more of a perception issue more than anything else...she KNOWS her hand's up, but even if she looks at it, she just doesn't register that it's up...one of our parents is a dr...I'll ask him about it...

[edew]

Let's see, she's from LA. Is she blonde, too?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by edew

Let's see, she's from LA. Is she blonde, too?

She is, but that's utterly irrelevant, Eric. It's a real concern to her and even if there's no physical problem, it's bothering her, and thus affecting her bladework: her 5's are not as crisp as they used to be BECAUSE of this concern.

[THumbach]

There is actually a psychological condition known as dysesthsia (or something similar), where a person 'loses track' of where there limbs are. For example, they have to look at their feet as they walk because they do not know if the foot is in front of their body or how far ahead. Usually it is not so limited as your student experiences.

[Purple Fencer]

Update from the student: This is not an issue of physical imparment or injury. She reports it being similar to holding a small feather...you can feel the feather in a tactile sense, but it's so physiclaly light you don't really realize you're holding something.

When I raise my arm up for a 5 parry, I can feel the muscles in my right shoulder bunch up to raise the arm...she does not feel that. She can feel it if she squeezes the grip hard. She can feel the blade/blade contact...the end result is, because she can't sense her arm up -- even though she feels hersel parry my head shot -- she's in a rush ti get her arm down where she can feel/control the blade...which results in an overly wide and hard chest cut...her flank cuts from the same position are great...it's the chest shots that are the issue.

She's going to try to write up her own feelings...I'll pass them on.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Update from the student: This is not an issue of physical imparment or injury. She reports it being similar to holding a small feather...you can feel the feather in a tactile sense, but it's so physiclaly light you don't really realize you're holding something.

When I raise my arm up for a 5 parry, I can feel the muscles in my right shoulder bunch up to raise the arm...she does not feel that. She can feel it if she squeezes the grip hard. She can feel the blade/blade contact...the end result is, because she can't sense her arm up -- even though she feels hersel parry my head shot -- she's in a rush ti get her arm down where she can feel/control the blade...which results in an overly wide and hard chest cut...her flank cuts from the same position are great...it's the chest shots that are the issue.

She's going to try to write up her own feelings...I'll pass them on.

Sam,

This experience appears to be similar to that which Delia and Thumbach are referring to. She might want to see a neurologist.

You might also tell her to take a quinte and tighten the muscles in her arm and hand--that might help bring back the "feel" of where the arm is. My hungarian master says that you should squeeze the handle of your sabre sharply at the moment you reach the final position of any parry--this firms up the parry and gives you a solide feeling of where the parry is.

MR

[dunastor]

I agree she should see a doctor.

There are a few conditions which cause symptoms with a specific position of the arm...

For example there is the cervical hernia, or something like the superior thoracic aperture syndrome...

I didn't think the loss of proprioception in the affected arm is the main symptom in those, but it sure does warrant a look from a doctor.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Let's put it this way. If this student is developing an abnormal neurological condition, better to catch it now. Surely the chances of successful treatment would be enhanced. And if it's a physical problem, then coaching-type interventions won't help it.

And if she's not developing an abnormal neurological condition, then you can address the problem as a fencing/coaching problem.

If this student is a minor, do her parents know about this?

[Purple Fencer]

I'll talk to her mother about it (she's 14), but right now their mind is on her father, who just had a triple bypass a week ago.

One thing I did NOT ask was if she had the same problem when she wasn;t holding a weapon....

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

I'll talk to her mother about it (she's 14), but right now their mind is on her father, who just had a triple bypass a week ago.

Ouch. Out of curiosity--did this problem develop at about the time of her dad's operation? You know, a psychological thing.

One thing I did NOT ask was if she had the same problem when she wasn;t holding a weapon....

Hmmm--good insight--that would be good to know.

But I still think a visit to a neurologist wouldn't hurt and might prove a Godsend if the girl is developing some sort of physical problem.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by D'Artag-NOT

Ouch. Out of curiosity--did this problem develop at about the time of her dad's operation? You know, a psychological thing.

Y'know....it MAY have! I'll email her the link to this thread...maybe she can shed some more light...

[CutLass]

Originally Posted by D'Artag-NOT

Let's put it this way. If this student is developing an abnormal neurological condition, better to catch it now. Surely the chances of successful treatment would be enhanced. And if it's a physical problem, then coaching-type interventions won't help it.

Like he/she (what are you anyways D'Artag-NOT?) says. It's better safe than sorry. Send her to a doctor for an evaluation.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by CutLass

Like he/she (what are you anyways D'Artag-NOT?) says...

I'm a she-fencer. (Doesn't that sound nice and fierce??)