Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

RedsectorA · 03-28-2001, 12:41 PM

What type of grips do you prefer? Straight French grips? Pistols grips? And what type of pistol grip? And why? What makes one grip better than the other?

As someone who is dying to start in foil fencing, and cant stand the wait till May when the next beginner's class starts, I am curious about others opinions! Personally, I think I will start with the straight French grip (probably because that is what the class will offer), does everyone start with that type? And if so, why did you change?

There that is enough!

latenight · 03-28-2001, 12:51 PM

I use a PBT visconti. I used to use German grips, but I found the Visconti better for infighting and just about everything else. I used a French briefly. I would wait until your coach says you are ready for a pistol grip. Some coaches want their students to use a French first. So I would check with him/her.

[This message has been edited by latenight (edited 03-28-2001).]

Christopher J Umbs · 03-28-2001, 12:55 PM

Also the straight grip and the French grip are different. The French grip is usually molded to fit the hand.

Chris

oiuyt · 03-28-2001, 03:32 PM

I use size 3 visconti grips.

One thing about using pistol grips as a beginner is that they tend to promote bad habits when you're first starting out. I'd suggest starting with french and then eventually moving to pistol grips when you start competing.

-B

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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

All your music are belongs to us- RIAA

veeco · 03-28-2001, 09:57 PM

French grip rocks!!! AAaaahhh. That look on your face when I get you right behind the guard (sorry, "la coquille" -- c.f. the "Americans" post), after a perfectly executed disengage... Yummy!

RedsectorA · 03-29-2001, 01:49 AM

I do indeed plan to start with whatever grip my instructor/coach dictates, afterall I would not go against his wishes as he obviously knows more about it than I do

I am curious though, why people switch to the pistol grips? what makes them better than the French (or straight) grips?

p.s. I didnt know there were "straight" grips (I always thought of French grips as straight, even though you can bend them to conform to your hand), Thanks Chris!

space_cadet · 03-29-2001, 02:55 AM

I think that you, as a novice, just meant to say French grip, which is straight in appearance. Umbs is making a distinction between the French grip which has a contour and an acually stright grip which has no contour, which is not used in sport fencing anyway.
One reason I switched was I ended up fencing this one guy who could disarm me. So, with the pistol grip, I wasn't able to be disarmed. Plus, when I got into intermediate fencing, my instructor suggested I get a pistol grip.

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Cadet à Space

Crash55 · 03-29-2001, 03:02 AM

I use a Zivkovic Z-II. One thing that always annoyed me about regular pistol grips is post that comes back across your wrist. I guess it suppsoed to help power but it always seemed to impede movement to me. I like the fact that the Z grip fits completely in my hand. For the same reason others don't like it or say it hurts their hand.

French does appear to give a finer point control but you loose some of the power. It also allows you to move hand position and get another inch or two of reach. Most people I see using it in epee do this.

Most coaches still seem to start with French. I think the idea is to make one concentrate on doing things right and making small motions. When beginners got to pistols too fast they seem to rely a lot on power instead of finesse.

Grips are a matter of preference. When it comes time to get your own weapon see if you can try out other grips. Either by borrowing them form your club or teammates. Even if they won't let you fence with them, just holding the grips should give you some idea of what you like.

oiuyt · 03-29-2001, 05:18 AM

Pistol grips give you more strength -- it's harder to knock your blade out of line or out of your hand.

French grips have the aforementioned posting ability (holding the grip back away from the guard), although that costs you even more strength.

One big downside to pistol grips for beginners is there's a VERY common tendency to clamp the hand down in position and then every motion comes from the wrist (at best) rather tahn the fingers. With a French grip it is very intuitive/easy to make the motions with just flexing and relaxing the fingers. Not that you can't still have bad form and do everything from the arm with a French, but the tendency is much less. Once a fencer has learned to do everything with just the fingers there's less risk of reverting when switching to pistol grips.

One interesting case is the way we usd to do things at Johns Hopkins. The team there invariably practiced with French grips, regardless of level of experience, but nearly everyone competed with a pistol grip. Our coach believes that practicing with a French grip forces one to continue using precise and correct technique. Once it came time for competition we'd use the strength provided by the pistol grip. We never seemed to have any trouble switching between the two at will which is the objection most often raised when I mention this training idea. Personally I tend to agree with my coach and think that it really works.

All in all, my inclination is that a beginner should be using a French and only switch to pistol grips when they start competing.

-B

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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

All your music are belongs to us- RIAA

Tomas N · 03-29-2001, 05:37 AM

Does a pistol grip need to be insulated for competition?

neevel · 03-29-2001, 08:18 AM

At least at the ends, yes. If you tend to sweat profusely (enough to cause a conductive bridge to your lame), then a fully insulated grip would be desirable.

-Dave

Stryder · 03-30-2001, 02:49 AM

Dave,
Is the rule in regard to insulating the ends of the grips still applicable? The boxes solved that problem a long time ago.
I would also add that almost anyone sweats enough to have need of insulating their grips on some boxes. Some have higher resistance than others. I have played around with increasing that insulation to the entire hilt (as it were.) Our boxes seemed to be causing a lot of grief in this area, so I used a waterproof pad, and painted the inside of my bellguard (masking off a small area for the socket to connect with the bellguard.)
What I found out was, if you sweat enough, and if your glove isn't new, you eventually got the same irritating results. The salt in your glove made the "bridge" that much easier to achieve.
Any ideas?
PS: No, I don't sweat like a pig. This only occurs when we practice for 3-4 hours straight. In summertime. In the rain. Yeah.

Oh yeah. The topic of the thread.

Pistol grips give a HUGE advantage in power. If your coach wants you to use a French for a while, do so. Buy your own weapon ASAP and get whatever grip you want as long as it is a Visconti. Go to an NAC and count the number of fencers in the top 32 using anything else. Look up the guys who placed DFL and ask him what he uses. You'll answer your own question.

[This message has been edited by Stryder (edited 03-30-2001).]

big poppa · 03-30-2001, 02:50 AM

I think thats a great idea ,using the frence grip in pratice and the pistol in competion

space_cadet · 03-30-2001, 03:41 AM

Regarding pistol grips, have you tried transforming yourself into a corn chip?

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Cadet à Space

oiuyt · 03-30-2001, 05:41 AM

The rule regarding insulating the protrussions on foil grips s still applicable because it's still on the books... get a harda** ref and you'll need them insulated. Actually required in the real world (or the rough approximation that is the fencing world)? No, not with current boxes.

-B

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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

All your music are belongs to us- RIAA

neevel · 03-30-2001, 07:27 AM

Actually, there is a good reason for the rule on insulating grips to still be there. What the anti-blocking logic in current scoring machines does is make the surface of the weapon _valid target_ if it is brought into electical contact with the lame.

-Dave

RedsectorA · 03-31-2001, 03:22 PM

Thanks to everyone that replied to this topic, I see a lot of good advice!

I notice that several people recommend Visconti type pistol grips? Is this a brand name or a type of grip? I tried a search but didnt come up with any pics of the Visconti grips!

Gajuith · 03-31-2001, 03:30 PM

Visconti is the type of grip. I would recommend the ones made by Uhlmann. You can get them at www.thefencingpost.com

latenight · 04-03-2001, 07:06 PM

I recommend the ones made by PBT. They are available at www.fencepbt.com

space_cadet · 04-04-2001, 04:45 AM

Visconti is not a brand name but a type of pistol grip. Other types are Belgium, Russian, American, and German. Brands that I think are good are Uhlmann, Negrini, Santelli (I don't if they import them or make their own), the low-budget stuff from Triplette. I haven't tried PBTs, Allstars or Leon Pauls so I don't know about them.

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Cadet à Space