Money Money Money

[swordsen]

$85 for one night a week???? Geez. That is a bit much.

[135711]

so getting back to subject on money, i don't think i've ever met a fencing teacher whose sole object was collecting money to pay rent. never, not really, it's a difficult thing for independent instructors to develop a fees schedule and more difficult to accept fees from students when you don't really have a lot of confidence in yourself, however talented. but eventually if everyone is receptive to one another, things will not only work out but get better. things took a downturn by me, but there's always hope that things will turnaround again.

[achilleus]

[quote]Originally posted by 135711:
<strong>so getting back to subject on money, i don't think i've ever met a fencing teacher whose sole object was collecting money to pay rent.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You need to get out more. Or maybe you don't...

Clubs need to pay rent, fact of life.

[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by 135711:
<strong>so getting back to subject on money, i don't think i've ever met a fencing teacher whose sole object was collecting money to pay rent...
</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'll be kind and say that fencing coaches do have fencing on their minds when coaching. But to believe that money is not an issue in even a passing way is being overly naive. Some coaches had been reduced to doing just that: collecting money, and doing all the bookkeeping and such, and letting others do the coaching.

As they say, 90% of a head coach's job is administrative. And 90% of that probably has to do with money.

[135711]

[quote]Originally posted by edew:
<strong>

As they say, 90% of a head coach's job is administrative. And 90% of that probably has to do with money.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't agree. First of all who said it, and where do they say this. Second, 90% of the time is incorrect, I'd say 70% of their time is spent organizing events and 30% is spent in tabulating events.

'lack of money is the root of all <img src="graemlins/evild.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil]" />

[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by 135711:
<strong>

I don't agree. First of all who said it, and where do they say this. Second, 90% of the time is incorrect, I'd say 70% of their time is spent organizing events and 30% is spent in tabulating events.

'lack of money is the root of all <img src="graemlins/evild.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

It was just a colloquial turn of a phrase (like the 80-20 rule). And it applied primarily to NCAA sports. In that case, 0% is spent organizing events, and 0% is spent on tabulating events (they get other folks to do those things).

[achilleus]

[quote]Originally posted by 135711:
<strong>

I don't agree. First of all who said it, and where do they say this. Second, 90% of the time is incorrect, I'd say 70% of their time is spent organizing events and 30% is spent in tabulating events.

'lack of money is the root of all <img src="graemlins/evild.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


If you are a coach running your own club, the first thing needed is to pay rent. That's the bottom line. Everything else hinges on having space. If you, as coach, are dealing with administrative work, the bulk of it will be about paying rent. For example, collecting fees, bringing in new members, organinizing events for fund raising, organizing events for current members to make them feel at home can all be linked to making money to pay rent.

This doesn't mean that the coach doesn't care about fencing or his/her students, but that if you can't pay rent, you can't really teach.

[135711]

okay i'll let you guys have the final word, but if the overhead gets to be too much, maybe it's time to think about a less expensive place, like my first teacher, an old unused girls gym, unconnected to anything, we all did very well, we had rated fencers, nationals the whole thing, it was fun, no air conditioning, but the space was really large, so we had lots of strips, that was the emphasis in our fencing, we had lots and lots of space, and all three weapons, everyone went wild.

[swordsen]

Would that there were more spaces like that available out there in the world. We used to fence in and old skating rink which was great too. Till the roof collapsed and it was torn down.

[edew]

FAP, Fencing Academy of Philadelphia, started life in an abandoned swimming pool in Fairmont Park in Philadelphia (duh).

To get to the strips, one had to climb down the ladder into the pool. Because the pool was not flat (there's a deep end and a shallow end), the wooden strip in the pool was partially slanted.

After the swimming pool, it moved to a creepy store-front on South Street. While the street is quite eclectic, with a semi-bohemian flavor to the people around there, the club was a scary place. Well, the first floor was all right, but enough for just two strips. The upstairs was where Mark Masters would occasionally give lessons. When he first got the place, the whole upstairs walls and ceiling were graffiti-fied. It was scary as all.

One might imagined that there were satanic sacrifices and dead chickens stowed away somewhere. Well, he and several club members cleaned up the place and made it into a decent fencing facility for a brief while before he eventually moved to Powelton Village area (just north of Drexel University). He's moved from the first place to a newer, larger place (I haven't been to the new place) since then. Good for him.

Mark's given me many an advice on running a club, and for him, income is very important. He has employees (coaches) and bills to pay. He's now a respectable businessman, you know, and so he has to charge money. But, considering his results, you get your money's worth.

[Peach]

The new FAP facility is very nice. I spend a large chunk of money to be able to train there (well, actually, the money is largely spent on lessons, because the monthly fees aren't that much) but it's worth it--there are plenty of strips, tournament-ready machines, weight-training equipment and exercise machines, lockers, a shower, good coaching, and competition-quality bouting. Mark has really made a success of it but it's still tight sometimes.

--Delia

[KShan5[PrFC]]

My club, Providence, is exactly $40 a year.

[Inquartata]

I find that acronym amusing, as my father has used "FAP!" as an expression of disbelief, denial and/or disgust all of his life. Rather like naming your club BAH or PHOOEY...

[shyHeidi]

Eh... fap.

[Inquartata]

Bah!

[HilandDoug]

Well, I may as well chime in. No cow jokes, though! Sorry!

My classes are $60 for 12 or 8 weeks, depending on the term, but each is the same amount of hours. The school supplies all of the equipment except shoes and gloves. If you're advanced enough, there's the non-instructional "fencing club" fee of $30 for the same amount of time, but you must have your own equipment. The downside is that we only meet Friday evenings from 6-10. I only teach beginners and advanced beginners, but Maestro Shapiro (yes, he's a REAL Maestro!) and UofM Coach Jim Vesper are available for more advanced lessons, for various extra fees.

Old posters to this board may remember my old offer of the $7000 per year membership. There is only one slot available, and it comes with a mint condition custom Porsche 944. Let me know if you'd like more details!

[Niceguy4186]

my class meets in an aerobics room in my college's stadium, it's pretty small, enough for maybe two full strip,or many half type strips down the legnth of it. (which what we mainly do sense we have like 20 people in the class) you don't know how many times i've backed up into the mirror walls HARD. i'm very surrpised that no one has broken one yet (at least in my two quarters of taking the class)

[Cheryl]

Just thought you all might want some more details about the club that Nice Guy is talking about.
It is called the American Fencing Academy of Dayton and is led by Ray Bautista. Ray fenced for Stanford in Cal.
Equipment rental if for ANY equipment you need to use. Dry AND electric. This includes lame, body cords, weapons for foil and epee. They have not had enough time to get sabre together. Greg and I are working on that (we were coached by Wladimiro Calarese)
It might also be noted that the equipment at this particular college is provided for NO extra charge because it is a college class. I began fencing the same way and had a hard time with the "equipment rental" thing when I went outside of the university.

I hope that Nice Guy gives us a try.

[Niceguy4186]

[quote] hope that Nice Guy gives us a try. <hr></blockquote>
Two questions, this is the one at the kettering Rec, right?
and my friend goes there (lyle), the said you could buy in for one day for 5 bucks, do i just show up?
thanxs

[suregrip]

edew -

The prices you quoted earlier are about typical for my club. I pay roughly $2500 for my son and I to fence, plus other incidentals, and that I believe is typical for the type of setup we have. Our club is a warehouse that was gutted and painted over and with flooring laid down....it is one strip after another, very roomy and nice. Now that my daughter has shown an interest in fencing, I can expect my fees to go up some more. I'll be working strictly to fence, I guess.....