CBS Iraq Prisoner Treatmemt Footage

[Gav]

There has been much discussion about the pro's and con's of the Iraq conflict on this baord. What do the members think about this?

[Louweasel]

I saw this on the news last night (same as you Gav I suppose) and I was absolutely appalled. Shocked. Disgusted. Fear of torture (like that poor man was subjected to that they stood on a box with his head covered and wires in his hands and told himif he fell off he'd be electrocuted) is one of the things iraqis were subjected to under Saddam Hussein, one of the things western forces were supposedly fighting against.
The small amount of soldiers have brought into disrepute the good name of the honourable men and women who went out there to try to bring peace and stability, and they should be heartily ashamed. I don't think they are fit to work in the forces. How can they be part of a force who are supposedly out there to stop torture and dictatorship?
I feel sorry for the majority of soldiers as their lives have been made more difficult, when it's not easy as it is.
The thing that really makes my stomach churn is the way they did it for fun. Standing there grinning and doing a thumbs-up sign when a fellow human being was being humiliated. They were degrading someone already at a disadvantage, for their own amusement. What kind of person does that??
Even getting away from the moral issues (if you can) it's against the Geneva Convention to treat POWs like that and the soldiers found guilty in the proper manner should be dealt with according to the appropriate law.

[Gav]

When I first saw it, my first thought was, "Surely no-one at this prison has been THAT stupid - not with the intense media interest." I assumed it was mostly hype, then I saw the pictures...

I think it's appalling.

I can't believe that one of the soldiers appears to be attempting to shift blame by stating that he had never seen the Geneva Convention. Even if he hadn't, he should be able tell right from wrong. I find it hard to believe that someone could attempt that as a defence. This complete breakdown in discipline plays into the hands of the US detractors and paints a picture which I am sure is different to the reality for most Iraqi's.

I hope they throw the book at them.

[Inquartata]

I agree with the both of you. Very disheartening.

[Army Fencer]

This will only incite more violence.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Like our soldiers needed training or instructions as to how to treat other human beings decently??

I agree, this was shocking and horrible, and I wish the President would blow his stack over it instead of being so smug about how we threw Saddam out. Doesn't our Commander in Chief realize that a few members of our armed forces are shooting Al-Qaeda recruiting videos?

Way to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Way to discourage terrorism.

Gawd, the whole thing is disgusting.

[C.J.]

Let's not forget the good folks at Guantanamo.

Now we know why no one listens to us when it comes to human rights.

[Soldier]

The good folks at Guantanamo who get treated quite humanely?

[MikeHarm]

I feel imprisonment without charges is wrong, so is not allowing people access to attorneys, listening in on attorney client discussions, and not allowing people to appeal their situation or tell their family what happened to them. I also feel torture is also wrong, by our people or by proxy.

I'm in favor of kicking Al Caeda butt, but I don't think the price we have to pay for victory must be our soul. We should be better than this.

[darius]

I agree with Mike, especially in regards to the stories of arrest/detainment without charges we've had in the US.

But...the enemy combatants in Guantanamo are not citizens of the US, so affording them the legal rights of US citizens isn't necessarily what you want to do. However, trying to weasel out of the Geneva Convention isn't such a shining example. You sent in the Marines and captured them, so call them POWs.

darius

[Event Horizon]

I saw those photo's and am also outraged. I am glad to hear that those responsible are being charged. I would like to see the female BG that was in charge of the prison get a courts-martial too.

I'm sure the majority of the troops there do act in a professional manner and do the job they are suppose to do. Things like this do make it much harder for them and undermines the whole mission. I hope the media and the government doesn't let this thing fall from the public eye.

[Soldier]

Actually, I hope this does fall from the public eye. What good does it do, anyway? As you said, it undermines the mission. A few soldiers screwing up gives everybody else a bad image - but is by no means the norm. What is the good in making sure people keep dwelling on the negative, and not the normal?

[Philistine]

Actually, I hope this does fall from the public eye. What good does it do, anyway? As you said, it undermines the mission. A few soldiers screwing up gives everybody else a bad image - but is by no means the norm. What is the good in making sure people keep dwelling on the negative, and not the normal?

Because by making sure such things are found promptly, punished harshly, and not swept under the rug--it sends two messages:

1. to others in charge of prisoners that such activity is not tolerated and

2. to the Iraqis (and the rest of the world) that this type of behavior is an aberration and will be quickly rooted out wherever it is found and not just "hushed up."

--Philistine

[Soldier]

Found promtply and punished harshly, yes. Swept under the rug, no. But there is a difference between "sweeping it under the rug" and holding it up in the public eye to revel in for years.

[C.J.]

I am afraid it is only the tip of the iceberg

[Soldier]

Fear is understandable, but is there anything justifying that fear? I personally don't hold much by the accusations being made by Amnesty International.

[telkanuru]

If you don't trust statements by Amnesty Int'l, who, pray tell, would you trust? The government to regulate itself without any oversight whatsoever? Amnesty overreacts occasionally, but they do not make unfounded claims.

[Philistine]

{snip}
But there is a difference between "sweeping it under the rug" and holding it up in the public eye to revel in for years.

Years???? It's been in the news for a few days now. Let's give it a little bit of time before it fades from the public eye.

Still lots of unanswered questions--like were they acting under the orders/tacit approval of superiors, intelligence operatives or contractors? Who knew, and who should have known? How widespread is this?

I've heard similar accusations before but had always dismissed them out of hand as being unbelievable. Sadly, what I can no longer do that.

--Philistine

[Phoenix]

I find these pictures troubling and I know that this will make the extremests over there even more angry. And it will make Iraqis angry and those freaks are jepordizing the lives of hundreds of soldiers and innocent people all because they wanted to totally humiliate these prisoners and take a picture. And this also kills the moral of the troops over there because they know what is comming. They get the same news from over here and they hear how everyone is mad at them and disappointed. They know they are going to be even bigger targets than before. So, as nicely as I can say it, this people are in big crap.

These jerks can't get away with it and they ruined their whole life over a few laughs. I bet they aren't laughing now.

I feel so bad for all of the soldiers over their who truely feel they are helping these people and then they hear that some of their own are torturing them. Just great. There are my 2 cents....

[Soldier]

I hope the media and the government doesn't let this thing fall from the public eye.

This is what I was referring to. It has been just a few days so far, but without Event Horizon specifying how long he means, I'm worried about the worst-case scenario.