Help - my foil point is possessed by Beelzebub!!

[fencerchica]

Seriously, I'm so frustrated, this has driven me to overcome my terrible shyness and make my first actual post on fencing.net! :-)

Brief introductions, I guess: I'm a New York City foilist, been fencing 4 years now, graduating from electrical engineering in 3 weeks, and being kind of a gear-head, am trying to accumulate as much armoury lore as possible -- for better or worse, often by working on my own gear. :-D

I have a fairly new German Allstar point on this particular foil, and the problem appears to be that something is persistently (but invisibly) shorting within it at all times (whether or not the tip is depressed), from the wire through to the blade, when the point is assembled.

With the point *disassembled*, continuity from my bayo socket's interior contact to the foil wire's contact cup is OK; isolation between the socket and the blade is OK (therfore I don't think the wire itself can be shorting anywhere along the groove); the barrel is clean as a whistle and undented (cleaned out with alcohol and q-tip, checked carefully for interior dents); the tip is in good order, with continuity between the collar and the spring's resting point when the collar is down (i.e., tip undepressed), and no continuity when the collar is up (i.e., tip depressed). The spring and the screws are both brand new, and the point's components all go together smoothly, with no snags in the tip motion or trouble getting the screws in, and the collar is definitely seating properly with respect to the screws.

Yet, if I test from the socket to the tip with the point *assembled*, there is always a path for current, even when the tip is depressed; also (to eliminate the socket) if I test from the blade to the tip, there is also always a path, even with the tip depressed.

Aaaaugh! This kind of inexplicable problem was supposed to be what I was getting rid of when I switched from French points! If anyone has any wisdom to offer, or troubleshooting techniques I might apply, please respond! Thanks so much. :-)

--Marie

[RebelFencer]

Pray.

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[C.J.]

Do you go to Fencers Club?

[DHCJr]

Most likely the threads are too long or there is some bare wire past the cup. What could be happening is when you assemble the tip, the spring presses the cup down, causing the short. The easiest way to test this is take your jewelers screwdriver, making sure it does touch the side and press down hard, if you get a connection, it is rewire time.

The threads should be about 3 to 5 is a good rule of thumb. If you are not fencing in the World Cup and Ted and Joe are there, you will have two of the best to work with and they are not too far away from you. Also Dan will be the SEMI rep there.

[Purple Fencer]

If you are not fencing in the World Cup and Ted and Joe are there, you will have two of the best to work with and they are not too far away from you. Also Dan will be the SEMI rep there.

Give the full names, Don....some people may not know who you mean (aside from the Cali armorers like yourself I don't!)

Check me...you mean Ted Li, Joe Byrnes, and (of course), Dan DeChaine...right?

[DHCJr]

All over the world, there are 5 Armorers names you don't have to give last names to. I have had fencers come up and ask me if I know Dan or Joe or Ted or Carl or Matthew.

For those who don't know how lucky the US is in terms of Armorers, I give you the names of who are considered the world over as the 5 best. They are Dan DeChaine, Joe Byrnes, Ted Li, Carl Oberg and Matthew Porter.

I'm afraid I'm used to just saying their first name. When I go out of the country or work with the US team, those name are known. I will try and remember to give complete names in the future.

[EricS]

You might also want to examine the tip itself very carefully--there was once a run of Uhlmann points with which the silver plating flaked off the "spool" slider, shorting it to the center post of the tip.

[telkanuru]

Are you sure it is not perhaps lucifer, asmodius, or even moloch? Aside from summoning Gabriel or one of the apostles, or the pope for an exorcism (Jesus blessed my blade; well, we call him Jesus, another story for another time). I'd say that do what DHCJr says, because he knows what he's talking about. If that fails, poke everything with a multimeter to see if you can find a spot; if that fails, rewire; if that fails, get yourself religion.

[whtouche]

According to weekly world news, the pope has picked mel gibson as his successor.

[telkanuru]

It is as it was, I guess. And by that I mean silly.

[Barry Paul]

[QUOTE=DHCJr]
For those who don't know how lucky the US is in terms of Armorers, I give you the names of who are considered the world over as the 5 best. They are Dan DeChaine, Joe Byrnes, Ted Li, Carl Oberg and Matthew Porter.

Only Joking, but I think we should be able to include some others. Peter and Janet Huggins. G.B. John Kennedy G.B. What about some French German and Italian experts? or DHCJR (what age does he become DHCSN??) Barry Paul

[fencerchica]

Wow, sorry I've taken so long to respond to all the helpful suggestions! Had to leave on an apartment-hunting trip and just got back last night. Thanks everyone for all the helpful suggestions armorial and demonic, especially Don. As soon as I get back to my gear and tools, I'm going to try that suggestion regarding putting pressure on the contact cup to see if I can provoke the short-out myself. I'll also re-check my tip for that Uhlmann problem EricS mentioned. Thanks!

Oh, and no, I've never fenced at Fencer's Club -- throughout my short career I've fenced at my school's club, at Riverbank, a little bit at Santelli, and lately at Brooklyn. :-)

[Swordmaster]

Donald,
I have had a simular problem with both German and French points lately. I have torn weapons apart piece by piece only to find that when I replaced the tip the problem disappears! Please explain to the general masses what you think, other than an obvious wire short could cause this annomilly. (these are brand new parts, Uhlmann and Sport 7)

[fencerchica]

Just thought I would post the conclusion to the foil-repair adventure that finally got me actively posting on Fencing.net -- Don, you were ABSOLUTELY correct; the advice you gave me about how the spring could be pressing the cup down and causing a short was dead-on. I got out my continuity light which has an alligator clip on one end and a long spike on the other, clipped to the blade, and put the spike down the barrel. Touched the contact lightly: no continuity. Pressed down (even just the least bit) and presto! a short-out. I hate rewiring... but I hate even more not knowing what the @#%*&!!! is going on when things don't work, so I actually feel immensely gratified at this point. Thanks again!!

--Marie