Cliff Bayer, historical accuracy?

[whtouche]

I'm having an arguement with someone about this right now, and would appreciate some clarification.

Cliff Bayer, apparantly was a really good foil fencer back in the day.
Does anyone know definitively what his highest world ranking was? And how many world cups he won, etc etc?

I don't really know where to find this information, and figured posting here asking people who might already know, would be more efficient.
Thanks in advance.

[Craig]

He beat Golubitsky in the St. Petersburg World Cup and was ranked as high as 8th in the 2000 season.

He lost by one touch to eventual Gold Medalist Kim in the Olympics.

I'm having an arguement with someone about this right now, and would appreciate some clarification.

Cliff Bayer, apparantly was a really good foil fencer back in the day.
Does anyone know definitively what his highest world ranking was? And how many world cups he won, etc etc?

I don't really know where to find this information, and figured posting here asking people who might already know, would be more efficient.
Thanks in advance.

[a517dogg]

He won the St. Petersburg World Cup and I believe he had pulled a muscle in his leg the same day. Search for the St. Petersburg WC video on fencingfootage, they love Bayer on that site.

[Dan H]

I don't have a citation to give you, but I remember reading at some point before Sydney that Cliff was ranked 6th on the WC men's foil standings. Craig and I discovered a bit ago that finding old fencing tournament results, bout scores, or mid-season rankings online is difficult, if not impossible.

[Schiavona]

Cliff Bayer, apparantly was a really good foil fencer back in the day.
.

Sooooo, 5 years ago is now 'back in the day'? Man, I've got to stop reading these posts-I'm feeling realy, realy, realy old now.
I started fencing in 1978. I've only been a 'Veteran' for five years.
Damnit! Where's my rocking chair!

[Tireur]

Sooooo, 5 years ago is now 'back in the day'? Man, I've got to stop reading these posts-I'm feeling realy, realy, realy old now.
I started fencing in 1978. I've only been a 'Veteran' for five years.
Damnit! Where's my rocking chair!

I was about to say the same thing about "back in the day".

I started in 1974......No milquetoast yet, tho......

[dreadfoily]

I've always been curious about Cliff, as his name came up in class several times. I saw one photograph of him, and judging from the diameter of his neck it occurred to me he would be extremely difficult to beat. He must have done a zillion press ups.

[fencingguy]

Cliff, big neck???? not really, granted he had a strong right arm and powerful legs, but he really wasn't a muscle bound giant. If anything I would have called him skinny. In fact one of my friends who knew him used to make fun of him for having a t-rex claw for a back hand.

[noodle]

Cliff, big neck???? not really, granted he had a strong right arm and powerful legs, but he really wasn't a muscle bound giant. If anything I would have called him skinny. In fact one of my friends who knew him used to make fun of him for having a t-rex claw for a back hand.

i think he's referring to the picture on this page, which does make his neck look quite ... unflattering for some reason.

[wflaschka]

Scrawny? Bull-necked?

Prior to the Sydney Olympics, there was an advertisement featuring Bayer. The ad was for Timex, or IBM, or something. It was a simple picture -- Bayer, facing away from the camera, shirtless but wearing knickers, holding a weapon over his head. His back was very defined with muscles, and it was clear that he was fit and very proportional. I can't find the picture online, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

[whtouche]

A fencer in an advertisement for a big name company?
Was he sponsored too?

Perhaps this is the kindof mainstream success fencing might enjoy if we do well at Athens..
*dream*..

[wflaschka]

A fencer in an advertisement for a big name company?
Was he sponsored too?

I don't know if he was sponsored, apart from the vendors sponsoring the team with equipment. But the advertisement with Bayer -- it was in either Newsweek or Time, full-page. One of those news-mags.

[dreadfoily]

The photo I saw of Bayer had a neck with the veins sticking out it was definetly a neck of Pressups in the gym for several hours. And it paid off. Apparantly. If you work out in a gym doing squats and pressups, you can absorb more impact.

[Tireur]

A fencer in an advertisement for a big name company?

In the 80s (Back in the day...), Gay D'Asaro was featured in commercials for the cotton industry. The often run ad featured her doing a series of actions and lunging while espousing the benefits of cotton. "No wasted motion."

Of course, if I remember correctly, Gay always wore stretch nylon........

[Artisan]

And it paid off. Apparantly. If you work out in a gym doing squats and pressups, you can absorb more impact.

Huh? He was fencing - foil at that, not boxing! I guess I missed your point?

[whtouche]

ignore dread mango.
Hardly ever a point other than an attempt to make people miss it.

[epeemike81]

A fencer in an advertisement for a big name company?
Was he sponsored too?

Perhaps this is the kindof mainstream success fencing might enjoy if we do well at Athens..
*dream*..

Same olympics, there was the IBM commercial featuring Akhi. Basically, IBM did a series of commercials which were biographies on olympians, and he was one of 'em.

-m

[Kemijaba]

The picture Walter is talking about was in Life magazine, it was in a spread about the 00' Olympics. Here's the pic:



Looks pretty ripped there. I agree though, in certain pictures his neck does look a little thick.

The full article can be found here :

http://www.life.com/Life/essay/nakedpower/bayer.html

[wflaschka]

The picture Walter is talking about was in Life magazine, it was in a spread about the 00' Olympics. Here's the pic: ...

That's the one!!! That's the picture that's been haunting my dreams... erm... never mind.

I guess I see the strong neck... but now I can see an entirely different disproportionality. His right forearm seems maybe twice the size of his left. Check how much muscle bulges past the elbow on his right side.

[CutLass]

That's a great picture. All the pictures in that series are great.
First thing I thought is that practicing with both arms, being a right and a left handed fencer would better his stregnth and balance. But its hard to argue that he has done good the way he did it.