Hardest shot you've ever taken?

[thecoldroom]

I am completely new at all this fencing stuff, so give me a break if I sound like an absolute moron here. How often do you folks received a hard shot, i.e. any strike or collision that left a deep bruise, knocked the wind out of you, ect..., to the abdomen? Also, what protective gear would offer the best protection of a persons stomach area?

[Army Fencer]

Is your abdomen something of concern to you?

[thecoldroom]

Yes, yes it is. I have a rather interesting issue with it really. I have a kidney transplant, and the new addition is in my abdomen, snugly attached to the inside of my muscle wall. Taking direct punishing shots to an unprotected organ is, as you can surmise, less than optimal.

[Schiavona]

Try wearing one of those nylon back brace/belts. They seem pretty stiff to me.

[Army Fencer]

I can't get a good idea of where the surgeons put your kidney based on your description. Did they put it back in the posterior of your abdomen?

Is it the right or left kidney? Also, will you be fencing right or left handed?

(BTW, I'm a med school student, hence the interest.)

[thecoldroom]

The kidney is about four inches to the right of my belly button and about two inches down. I hope that helps explain the general location a little. It is quite near the surface, and can be readily felt by pressing in. This is not to say it is an overwhelming danger, but the potential for disaster is definately there. I have done other activites since the surgery and have yet to injure it, but those were all very little contact, baseball, basketball, ect... As far as which kidney it is, that term really doesn't apply anymore. It is THE kidney. I am right-handed.

[glowstix]

the hardest hit i've had was when i was fencing epee with this IDIOT (so glad he's gone from our club now) whose only conceptual grasp of fencing was "poking people" decided to attack with a poor excuse for a fleche. we got a double touch, the lights went on but the IDIOT wasn't satisfied. after the points were registered he's still coming after me at close range and the epee guard ends up in my ribs and was left with a bruise for over a week.

[sabreur]

You might want to get one of those plastic body shields for boys like the ones that women wear. Normally, I sort of think they are unneccessary, but in your case, you don't want to take a chance...

MR

[thecoldroom]

How much do the chest protectors restrict your mobility?

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by thecoldroom

The kidney is about four inches to the right of my belly button and about two inches down. I hope that helps explain the general location a little.

Thank you, that clears it up.

Since you are right handed and the kidney is on the right side, you have a strong chance of impact. Have you talked with your doctor about what kind of impact it can take? If not, it may be a good idea to talk to him or her before you really start fencing.

I do think you need protection. There are chest protects that extend over the front of the thorax. I don't think they will help you. Abdomen injuries are rare because the soft tissue absorbs most of the impact. As a result, most people don't need anything in particular to protect themselves there. You may be able to use a chest protector and modify it to protect your abdomen, though.

I did a quick search, and I found one at Blade:
http://www.blade-fencing.com/cgi-bin...3412206311+en+

[sabreur]

There is an active thread on this topic in the Armory section.

MR

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

You may be able to use a chest protector and modify it to protect your abdomen, though.

I was going to suggest the same thing. Take a chest protector and move it down and to the side? Something of hard plastic to distribute the impact.

Yes, you need something for safety's sake.

[thecoldroom]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Thank you, that clears it up.

Since you are right handed and the kidney is on the right side, you have a strong chance of impact. Have you talked with your doctor about what kind of impact it can take? If not, it may be a good idea to talk to him or her before you really start fencing.

[u1998111213412206311+en+[/url]

Actually, the doctors are pretty pleased with this decision. I was competitively involved in wrestling, boxing, and jiu-jitsu before the whole kidney failure thing, and have been reluctant to give up these obsessions, most of which I have been doing since I was ten years old. By reluctant, I mean I have been searching for the better part of six months in the hopes that I could possible find some way to at least continue the jiu-jitsu, but no luck. I think fencing will be a nice substitute, as it is something I have always wanted to do, and is, in it's own way, just as demanding and competitive as Div I wrestling. To tell the truth, I am not all that intimidated by the fencing bruises, but then again, I am not all that educated about how deep they can be.

The kidney is protected by my abs, and of course any fat and skin after that. It can take some jolting, small impacts, moderate pressures, but I am to avoid direct blows. For example sports I can't play, football, rugby, boxing, wrestling, judo,. Sports I can play, basketball, baseball, volleyball, track. Where do you think fencing lays? According to the American Medical Association, it involves moderate contact, making it equivalent to the recreations I can participate in.

[whtouche]

I think it would also depend largely on what weapon you plan on fencing. I think sabre would be the safest, followed by foil, then epee.
Epee hits tend to be harder (out of necessity to depress the spring), and the blade is much stiffer/heavier than a foil or sabre.
Foil hits are softer than epee, but the target is the torso only so you wont be able to escape with just a plink to the arm(tho epee shots fall to the body quite frequently still).
Sabre requires just a touch to set off the light, and since it is a cutting weapon someone would have to really wind up to deliver a cut with the same force as can easily be delivered by a foil or epee with the girth of the blade and guard behind the thrust.

I agree with the assessment that the plastic chest protector modified to protect your abdominal area would be the best idea. This modification would likely just involve lengthening the elastic straps that go over the shoulders to allow it to hang longer on your body.

They dont tend to restrict mobility when protecting the chest, but if you were to lower it to the more flexible abdominal area it might impede mobility a fractional ammount depending on how much you lean.
With good form it shouldnt get in the way much, and the extent it does would likely be easy to get used to.

[thecoldroom]

What about say, a mouse pad sow into your jacket? I used one of those in my gi during jiu-jitsu when I bruised my ribs and had to do the second half of a tournament the next day. It was rather ineffective for having a guy kneel on your stomach, but do you think it could protect against a foil? Also, how big are these chest protectors, and will they fit well around an abdomen having been designed for the upper torso?

[shlepzig]

With my cheap old cotton jacket (and the collection of A and B foil and epeeists I used to fence) I would characterize foil as dime size bruises, and epee as quarter size bruised. Which mostly dotted my chaest and weapon arm.

With my newer 800N stretch nylon jacket, I rarely see anything except for really good epee shots in the crook of the elbow or just in between the shoulder and chest muscles where a blade can find pretty good purchase.

All in all not that much impact. Really far less than a aggresive hip check in basketball.

The plastic chest protectors for men seem to cover the area that you are concerned about, and some of the older fellows I fence with now swear by them and don't seem immobilized by them at all. The only disadvantage I can see is that you can't avoid a close touch to the stomach with the gut-suck maneuver.

My .02

Shlep.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by thecoldroom

I am completely new at all this fencing stuff, so give me a break if I sound like an absolute moron here. How often do you folks received a hard shot, i.e. any strike or collision that left a deep bruise, knocked the wind out of you, ect..., to the abdomen? Also, what protective gear would offer the best protection of a persons stomach area?

I knew a guy in college that had a similar issue. He got a custom kidney pad made by a specialist somewhere. It essentially looked like football rib pads except made to fit the abdomen. I can't seem to find his info, otherwise I'd give it to you. I know he fenced in Portland, OR at times.

[thecoldroom]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

I knew a guy in college that had a similar issue. He got a custom kidney pad made by a specialist somewhere. It essentially looked like football rib pads except made to fit the abdomen. I can't seem to find his info, otherwise I'd give it to you. I know he fenced in Portland, OR at times.

Great info! If there is any way you can remember this fellows name, or where he got this custom pad, I would be eternally grateful. I would really like to talk to the guy any how, as there is such a little amount of information to go on in this type of situation.

[D'Artagnan1673]

This was definately my most painful shot. Right to the neck.

http://www.spindletopcavaliers.org/F...ful%20Shot.MPG

[Victor]

I stopped getting hit hard a couple of years ago after refining my sense of distance. No more epee welts on the arm led my wife to ask, "Honey, are you still going out every night fence, or is there something you want to tell me? ..." Fortunately, the lingering odor of my jacket and mask sweat alleviated any of her concerns.

Every so often, when I'm practicing a new move or tactic, I'll take a few hard shots again. Last week my chest was peppered with bruises -- looked like I had been shot. That stops happening when I improve again.

The hardest hit? Once to the gut, somehow, actually knocked the wind out of me and I doubled up gasping. I have to assume the blade hit at just the right angle so that it didn't bend or something. And another time my practice mask caught a shot off center so that the entire covering shifted around and rammed the mesh into my mouth. That resulted in a bloody lip.