Switch (Epee) Fencing

[onesandzeros]

Just wondering if any of you epee fencers switch between french and pistol grips depending on who you will be fencing?

(The reason I ask is...)
I am a pistol grip epee fencer and am thinking of making the transition to fencing with a french grip (seems that my style of fencing epee with a pistol grip is more how one would fence with a french grip). I have made a good investment in epees and don't want to toss all of them aside and have to replace them all at once. I'd rather just build up a collection of french grips slowly. If I were able to use the grip here and there I would feel more comfortable in giving up the pistol grip.

On a side note... Who would you suggest purchasing a complete french grip epee from (FIE or non FIE-blade, doesn't matter)?

[D'Artagnan1673]

I was thinking on a simular line this weekend myself. Unfortunately, I only have 3 epees, 2 french, 1 pistol. Two days before the event, I broke the wire at the base of the guard for my pistol grip epee. It didn't help that I couldn't find my third bell guard either.

At any rate, I went up against an opponent whom I would have preferred to fence pistol against. The end result probably would have been same, I lost. My though is that some fencers are especially apt to taking the blade so it would be beneficial to have a stronger game against some, and a game of finesse against others.

[hpfencing]

I've tried bouncing between french and pistal grips and it is hard... I suggest you buy one frnech grip an "play with it" a while to see if you really like it... If you do go ahead and switch over completely.........

The best advice is to talk to your coach and other fencers... One of them probably has a blade you can experiment with.... Your coach should be able to give you definate answers as to what they think they should do....

[telkanuru]

I used to switch, but found it adversely affected my fencing as I needed a little bit of time to adapt either way, so I just converted both to pistol. I'm shortly going to start toying with pommeling, so I may switch back. I don't reccomend doubling, tho.

Oh, I don't really know about specific manufacturers, I get all my stuff from BG, but I highly reccomend the Uhlmann french grip. The rubber is really nice.

[D'Artagnan1673]

On a side note... Who would you suggest purchasing a complete french grip epee from (FIE or non FIE-blade, doesn't matter)?

I guess it does not matter. That said, do use an ultralight guard. The French game is hard enough without adding additional weight to the weapon. I am sure you knew this already, but I thought I'd go ahead and add it anyway.

[D'Artagnan1673]

BG, but I highly reccomend the Uhlmann french grip. The rubber is really nice.

Agreed, the Allstar is good as well.

[DangerMouse]

I used to switch back and forth. I found that it really hindered my game because I couldn't use the same tactics with both. I highly recommend using just one grip for competition.

In terms of which grips to order, I love the shape of PBT's french grips and the balance with their heavy pommels and an uhlmann or leon paul ultralight guard.

The grips I like best are a modification of the PBTs made by Bill Reith in Cleveland. He covers the grips and pommels with an extra layer of surgical tubing that is really grippy and makes a slightly thicker grip (fits my hand better).

[germanguy]

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[germanguy]

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[broncofencer]

I will switch on occasion I usually use a pistol grip but if for example my point control goes into the toilet I will switch to the french. but as everyone says it is hard to switch from one to the other things work differently. Practice with both find which one you feel most comfortable with I like to be familiar with both so that if I break a weapon and have to borrow one I won't get something I am not sure how it will affect my fencing.

[Chris]

Just wondering if any of you epee fencers switch between french and pistol grips depending on who you will be fencing?

(The reason I ask is...)
I am a pistol grip epee fencer and am thinking of making the transition to fencing with a french grip (seems that my style of fencing epee with a pistol grip is more how one would fence with a french grip). I have made a good investment in epees and don't want to toss all of them aside and have to replace them all at once. I'd rather just build up a collection of french grips slowly. If I were able to use the grip here and there I would feel more comfortable in giving up the pistol grip.

On a side note... Who would you suggest purchasing a complete french grip epee from (FIE or non FIE-blade, doesn't matter)?

Well, certainly, you don't see golfers trying to go around 18 holes with 1 club, do you? No, they carry many clubs for different shots.

While the nature of variation in fencing is not the same as it is in golf, there's certainly every reason to beleive that, if you are going to fence different opponents differently (as many coaches would have you do), then it only makes sense that you MIGHT want a different implement to work with different moves.

That being said, I am certainly not recommending anyone carry 14 different epees in their bag!

And additionally, just as many golf instructors will limit the clubs their students use to, perhaps as few as 4 (driver, maybe a 3-4 iron, wedge, and putter), in order not to confuse the student with so many variables, I also do NOT really recommend grip divergence, until competent technique is demonstrated with the primary grip, and even then, one should probably get some qualifiied instruction in the first phase of the acquiring the new skill set.

As for the grip, and the blades, well, again, it depends on what techniques you plan on employing; if you are planning to be flicking to the wrist a lot, you might not want the same blade as if you plan to do more angulation hits with absence of blade.

Handles, and perhaps, more importantly, POMMELS, as well as guards, vary in thickness, weight, material, and texture; again, the issues are weight & inertia (sometimes useful in counterbalancing when flicking) vs. lightness for direct speed, especially when 'posting' (i.e. holding the very end of the handle & pommel - sometimes refered to as 'pommeling', although, to me, 'pommeling' has always meant hitting opponent WITH the pommel, in a downward stroke - like when those big swords had those spikes on the pommel, although conking someone on the bare head with the ones we use today would still be like a blow with a hammer).

ANYWAY, it certainly makes sense for your tools to be tailored for function: case on point; go to Home Depot and ask for a hammer; sounds simple, but the first thing they will do take you to an aisle with about 40 different hammers, and ask you what you want it for!

[Chris]

In epee I fence purely french. But my old roommate who was at that time in the top 10 juniors in germany used to swich at times.

From what he told me: if you switch, then only from french to pistol. If you start out with the pistol, the transition is hard. It helped him to focus in some competitions to start out with the french because it stresses point control and tempo more, and then switched to the pistol in the DE (or use the french against uncomfortable opponents only). But do not switch too much in one day, that will confuse you more than it will help.

This is a good point, although, I must say that, at least for training, (once you are at a more experienced, intermediate level) I recommend some extended use of french handle during 'off-season' times: I am not a big proponent of the concept of focusing on learning 'point control'; that is to say, I am not sure one should spend a lot of time trying to learn to do things with the blade to 'control' the point 'on the fly' and what it hits.

I have found that the LESS I try to do with the blade, the fewer variables there are to monitor, and the more likely I am to NOT mess up what started out as a good opportunity: focusing on executing warious fundemental techniques with as much precision as possible (read use a few muscles as possible), and you can learn much more accurately WHERE the point will be throughout the action, and more importantly, at the end of the move.

It then becomes a much simpler task to maneuver yourself on the strip such that there will be something in front of the point to be hit!

That being said, when the size/shape of my opponent is different, I try to focus on changing just one thing in a known 'equation' to adjust.

How does this fit in with the issue of using the french handle, even in training, well, since there is nothing on the french handle to 'hang onto', one is significantly limited in the way that they can 'arm-wrestle' with it: there's no prongs on it so, unless you orient the top of the blade in the right direction, it's much easier for the blade to get twisted out of our hand. And even when you DO get that right, you are still really at somewhat of a disadvantage,, in terms of leverage that the different grips offer, (this goes double if you are posting/pommeling) so you must strive to engage the opponent's blade so as to regain a leverage advantage. All this means learning a tighter game when is comes to how much you move your hand, and when.

However, it can certainly confuse your technique, which is why I recommend it as 'off-season' work.

Have fun.

[Andromeda]

In the time that I have been fencing I have not changed my grip preference based on who I am bouting. I find that you are able to basically able to do the same level of compitition with a person if you are thorough and well intune with your blade.

Personally I am primarily a french grip Epee fencer, but on multiple occasions (usually during club) I have had to resort to using a pistol grip. I have had no trouble switching back and forth, the only things I have noticed that have caused me slight trouble is the difference in weight of the pistol and french grips that I have used, and also the amount of point control that is given by the pistol. Other then that, no trouble whatsoever.

But I do highly suggest picking one and sticking with it, practicing with the one you will use in compition so that when you get there you know all the tricks of which ever grip you are going to use.

[grotto]

I switch regularly, I use a belgian grip fencing the heavy handed and the foil / epee fencers. I find the extra strength comforting. If my opponent uses the french then I immediately grab the french. If my opponent likes to take the blade I will use the french. I am less likely to tighten up and fight the bind with the frence allowing me to execute a yielding parry or just evade it all together.

[dreadfoily]

I use pistol grip, but I need to think about new grips anyway, I don't like the bulky aluminum BG grip; but the thinner grips that I like for foil don't do the same job.

[Thinking a-bout it again]

[suregrip]

I switched completely to the French Grip and have never looked back. I have 3 blades - one is quite heavy. I start bouting with it...the next is a medium weight that I switch over to later on, and the last is an ultralight I use for DE's. All are French grips. I find this works for me.