Growing of a tournament

[hpfencing]

We are trying to create a regional style big event in Amarillo Texas; The High Plains Open and I would like to know what people who travel look at when picking a tournament. I'd tryng to make this event one of the best that I have personally ever attended but I'm looking for ideas to really make the event grow and become known. Does anyone have any thoughts? What are some basic things we can do to grow our event?

The current information is posted at www.hpfencing.com/open04.html

[edew]

You need to generate notoriety for the event. For the inaugural event, you might have to sink some big cash for some cool prizes. Also create some cool idea for the competition.

After that, just run the event as smoothly as possible. Fencers want efficiently run competitions. Keep up with the prizes, if possible, and that's it. Of the two, fencers prefer a well-run competition over good prizes. For the vast majority of fencers, there's no hope of attaining the prize, but they go to fence the top fencers. The top fencers go because of the prizes and the fact that they know that the tournament will be run well. They don't want to have to wait around for hours before the next round begins.

[kalivor]

Really, the best way to grow a tournament (besides letting people know about it, which you're doing) is for it to be a good tournament.

That is, make people want to come back.

Part of this you have little control over -- most people will want to go to tournaments with good fencing, where they can earn ratings, etc, etc. I see you've waived their fees, and have little plaques for the winners -- there's not much more you can do there.

The rest of it though -- the general set-up, running on schedule and so on, you can do. Remember that this isn't just for the fencers, but for the officials and coaches, too ... you want the officials to want to come back next year, as good directing makes for a good experience. You want the coaches telling their fencers to attend your tournament.

Put on a fun event. Make the people who go want to come back ... some of them will bring others, and it will start to grow.

[Artisan]

Attract some exotic celebrity "talent": I.e. you find out Golubitsky or Kolobkov is going to be in the states, get em to show up and compete or give a seminar. Even if you have to pay them up front it could be a big draw. A few years ago Kolobkov was at our club (before I started fencing) for a "training event" it was $50, a limited number of people, and you got a few bouts with him, hang out a bit like it was a regular training evening.

[Rolls]

Golubitsky actually IS going to be in amrillo in May. But I'd bet that he's pretty much booked for that.

Anyway,

A couple of things that I like to see from tournaments.

1) vendors, vendors, vendors
- I think a big tournament MUST have at least one vendor. That's almost reason enought to go for me if it's within driving distance. I like to see and feel the equipment I buy. And the only chance I EVER get is at events.

2) grounded strips with lots of room.
- I personally hate ungrounded strips.

3) NICE medals. I don't get a huge number of medals, but when I do I cherish them. I HATE a cheap medal. Also, I would even say give the 1st place winner a medal AND a trophy. Trophies... you don't see them very much in fencing.

4) Like everyone said run it smoothly. Get good refs. Etc.

5) Try to get spectators in. This might seem hard, but it doesn't hurt to put some flyers out. Things that I often see in reguard to forgeting about spectators.
- when should they show up if they're just going to watch
- remind them that it's free to come and watch.
- when they get there have some signs pointing them in the direction to seating etc. (don't just let them mull about)
- have a flyer explaining basic rules and event format (i.e. what are pools, how many points they go to etc, what are de's etc)
- have scores cards for at least quarte finals on. (like they do at nations. It's just a cheap piece of colored paper with a number)
- annouce quater, semi, and finals on PA like you would a boxing match (on the left is John Doe from This Club in This Divison he is an A03)... Just some of my idea's

6) have food for competitors available. If you can get a keg of beer for spectators...

7) door prizes are nice. Not all of the fencer have a real chance of winning. (fencing videos are the BEST door prizes)

Rolls.

[germanguy]

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[Victor]

You need to generate notoriety for the event. ...

Well! The competition has more than enough of that already. Last year, for example, an Olympic-level saber fencer attending the event lost his temper in the final bout when he lost by one touch, and he broke the sword over his knee and flung it across the room where it pinned one of the bout committee members by his shirt collar to the wall. As they discussed the outburst, two of the directors discovered they were actually brothers who had been separated at birth, and that their children were dating each other now.

Just days before that, a foilist broke into the venue before registration opened, setting off a rather noisy alarm system. When police arrived, the obviously drunk athlete challenged them to a duel ... and then proceeded to take off his clothes because (direct quote from local newspaper), "This is how Zorro did it with Catherine Zeta-Jones." Obviously, he failed to make bail for his first bout.

It's also been the tradition of the event organizers to provide each of the top eight finishers with a very special prize: a night of Czech polka (with free lessons) at one of the local dance clubs. It's proven to be very popular; I don't know why they don't advertise it more.

What more could you want?

[telkanuru]

Multiple 3 or 6 weapon events. As much as I like fencing A's and learning what I need to fix, I also like a tourney that I have a chance of winning. The Pomme de Terre here in NE has an open and a unrated event in each of the 6 categories. I'm doing both, athough the fees really get to me. This way, I fence experienced persons and also am not horribly crushed. The PdT is, of course, a 2-day event.

Nifty prizes are also good. And making sure everyone knows when the semifinals/finals are taking place is a good thing. The comment about vendors is also strongly seconded.

[germanguy]

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[Aeric]

I was at rather small venue competing in a tournament a long time ago. It was a temporary high school dance studio for one competition. The strips were located above ground, and the entrance to the venue was a set of wide stairs leading up from the entrance. There were walls on either side, and a 4 ft tall ledge on the side of the stairs, so you could lean over above and see people walking in. I was fencing on a strip that went perpendicular to the stairs, and ended on my side about 5 ft away from the ledge.

Okay enough about the format. This is what happened. I was fencing a rather agressive foilist and he wasn't too happy that I had tied up the score at 3-3. So he does a beat and pulls the blade back in attempt to draw out a counter attack. I throw a stop thrust in, and hit him before he lands. So he's super pissed now, and flesches all-out on "Fence!" like a freakin' train was coming right for me, and I wasn't prepared, so I started crossing over backwards in full speed to attempt to gain enough distance to parry-riposte.

Unfortunately, an innocent bystander was trying to go behind me in attempt to cross our strip. Keep in mind that he has 5 ft of safe distance between the edge of my strip and the ledge to the stairs. I was relatively inexperienced, and the guy flesching at me drove me off the strip. I happened to lose my balance (read: tripped) and went flying off in a sort of backwards dive. This bystander sees me, yells something I can't remember, and crouches. When he sees me disappear (because I'm in mid air), he starts to rapidly stand up, and launches me even further in the air with his back. Because I am relatively light, I ricochet off the guy and am now about 5 to 6 ft in the air, when I clear the ledge leading down to the stairs. The ground disappears, and all I see are stairs... now very far down. I'm face-up, so all I see is the ceiling rapidly getting farther away.

So there I am, now about 12 ft above a flight of stairs, thinking two things in succession:

1) Wow, this is really going to hurt when I hit the bottom.

2) Wow, I've been in the air for a long time. Wonder when I'll finally hit the bottom?

Felt like at least 5 seconds of hangtime, and I ended up falling on a group of saber fencers who arrived for the open saber part of the competition. They broke my fall coming up the stairs, and we all went tumbling down and crashed out the doors in a heap of confusion and pain.

I probably would have broken my spine had they not been there, so I thanked and apologized profusely to them. They were pretty tough, so they shrugged it off. I ended up with a sprained wrist.

The one thing I always wondered though: What was the perspective from the saber fencers when they happened to look up and see a free-falling kid drop onto them?

[counterattack]

... I ricochet off the guy and am now about 5 to 6 ft in the air, when I clear the ledge leading down to the stairs. The ground disappears, and all I see are stairs... now very far down. I'm face-up, so all I see is the ceiling rapidly getting farther away. ... Felt like at least 5 seconds of hangtime, and I ended up falling on a group of saber fencers who arrived for the open saber part of the competition. They broke my fall coming up the stairs, and we all went tumbling down and crashed out the doors in a heap of confusion and pain.

Wow. That has to be the craziest fencing mishap I have ever heard. By an order of magnitude. Glad you survived

[hpfencing]

Thanks for you post so far.

• 1. Grounded strips We have four currently and I'm working on securing 4 more ofor teh event
  2. Cool prize, and door prizes; including metals that have our logo engraved on them.
  3. Rated referees (BTW I still need a few if there are any referees interested)
  4. food will be availabe at the venue
  5. Venders, we currently have two smaller vendors going to the event and we'd asked Post and Sword Masters to attend.
  6. Good fencers, we currently have 8 A level fencers attending.

I'm lookng at everything that is being sent and I want to say WOW, I've gotten a whole lot to think about in a short period of time. Please keep the posts coming, they are helping me a lot.

[Chris]

You need to generate notoriety for the event. For the inaugural event, you might have to sink some big cash for some cool prizes. Also create some cool idea for the competition.

After that, just run the event as smoothly as possible. Fencers want efficiently run competitions. Keep up with the prizes, if possible, and that's it. Of the two, fencers prefer a well-run competition over good prizes. For the vast majority of fencers, there's no hope of attaining the prize, but they go to fence the top fencers. The top fencers go because of the prizes and the fact that they know that the tournament will be run well. They don't want to have to wait around for hours before the next round begins.

The key thing to do is to analyze what sort of event you want this to become, and why; who you will want to come, and why they will come.

Frankly, (and I know it's been said elsewhere), it's important to have people leave, wanting to come back next time, and that means having it be a quality experience for them, within limits.

People compete for different reasons, and you have to understand what your 'audience' (current, as well as desired) is motivated by (i.e. fencing new people, better people, having fun, prestige of winning a big tournament, as well as prizes, medals, and other dust collectors, etc.)

Personally,I have quite a few medals, and trophies, and don't really get too motivated by that, but for someone who's only fenced for a few years, it's another story.

Other people are looking for challenging competition, so that's a little different, and might be achieved by inviting top level people to your event, and makign it easy for them to come (i.e. waiving fees, and covering expenses, as allowed). The down side to that is that only a fairly small number of people will get to fence that person, like 10, or 11, or so.

Some people forget that they are often asking other to drive a long way, or spend a lot of money traveling to an out of town tournament. When you consider that time, and expense, charging a little more for the tournament makes some sense, as it is only a small part of their expense.

(Although it's been made clear that this is an established event, so it's not really an issue,) I must differ with Eric's suggestion about sinking money into prizes at the beginning, especially with the idea that they might be phased out, once people come to expect that prize, and it's gone, well they might not come back either...but like anything, it might work, but it might only appear to work; and it might not work.

In Illinois, about 10 years ago, there was once a tournament that offered a $1000.00 prize to the winner (at least in foil), and essentially added $20.00 to the registration fee to make it up, charging $50.00: they got a preety good turnout (i.e. over 50 competitors) for a few years, until it became painfully obvious that Micheal Marx (who was living in Indiana at the time), was going to show up and win it every year! Now while it's certainly worth a few bucks to see him fence, the prize money wasn't directly motivating me to go to the tournament.

Beware of over-marketing: One thing you DON'T want to be unprepared for a large number of people who turn up, and you can't handle them: one irritated fencer can do a lot to deter their clubmates from coming back! So growing it somewhat slowly merits some consideration. .

Make sure that you support the event with enough
SPACE
EQUIPMENT
REFEREES!

It makes sense to include such information in your flyers, poster, webpage, or what ever marketing communications you use to indicate some of these things, especially if you have confirmation from your high level referees and fencers.

Additionally, consistency is good; most of the well-known tournaments have grown slowly, and, if they have had 'bumps in the road' weathered them with a histroy of quality events.

And try to let people know about the event as early as possible.

Good Luck!

[Epeecurean]

Excellent thread!

Apart from a well-run competition, prizes and so on, I think fencers want to get a good day's fencing in. As telkanuru says, it's nice to fence high-level fencers but if you get crushed in the pool bouts and lose your DE you may decide that it's not worth the cost (entry, travel, hotel) and not come back the next year. If you want to grow your event, hold a "plate competition" as is done here in the UK. Simply take all the losers from the first full DE and put them in a new DE tableau, with the 1st place finisher winning a consolation prize (in the UK a plate). That way all the fencers get more bouting in and get more out of the competition.

Cheers,

Epeecurean

[hpfencing]

Thanks for your contributions so far, they are helping myself and my bout committee out. I hope to hear more great comments come from this thread.

Thanks,

[grotto]

Directors, directors, directors and more directors. Event usually get bogged down by either 1) not having enough strips to fence all the pools 2) not enough directors especially in foil. There is nothing worse than waiting hours first to get the pool started or wait for others to finish. then in the initial round of DE waiting while 2 directors plow through the first round. (which always go to time and end 14-12 or some such).

[germanguy]

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