Nationals

[Delmont91]

I know there is already a thread for nationals in charlotsville, but this is ment more for questions about it. This last weekend I qualified to go in epee but am rather poor. College takes all of my money and was wondering around how much it costs. For those of you who have gone in previous years roughly how much did it cost total after food, hotel, plane ticket, check in ect? Also any other advise that you could give would be helpful. I would like to go, but am not sure I will be able to. Thanks guys.

[qatet]

Well, it will cost a different amount, depending on where you fly in from and certain other factors. Can you split a room with teammates? My boyfriend and I usually find a hotel through hotwire that has a kitchenette (and is cheap, as a result of being through hotwire) so we can cook and spend less money at restaurants. You may need a rental car, however, which can jack costs back up. But you can figure out pretty much all of your costs before you go - look at the entry form from the USFA, find the range of prices for air fare and hotels, etc. For me, most national events cost about $400-$500, including entry, air, hotel, food, but others may manage it on less.

Then of course, you have to ask if that price, which probably will be hefty, if worth it. After fencing my worst event ever recently in Arlington, I would still say that it was worth it - a swift kick to the rear to change to a training schedule I should have picked up a year ago.

[ShadowHuntr]

dont know about flights etc. but entry fees are something to note. $30 plus $50 per event so you are looking at a minimum of $80.

[Rolls]

Also to consider, do you need new gear. Often times, for me, buying new gear for a national event is one of the biggest expenses. Of course, that gear will last for a while. If you have everything you need, then fine.

But make sure you're mask is in good condition. (If it fails the punch test, that's another $100 at least). Body cords will be checked, and you'll need 3 weapons in good shape.

Rolls.

[Victor]

A related few questions concerning gear:

1. How many weapons do you take with you to Nationals?
2. How far in advance of the event do you make sure all your weapons are in good working order?
3. After you've confirmed they're good to go, do you still use your own weapons for simple practices before the Big Event?

[qatet]

<b>Victor wrote:
A related few questions concerning gear:

1. How many weapons do you take with you to Nationals?
2. How far in advance of the event do you make sure all your weapons are in good working order?
3. After you've confirmed they're good to go, do you still use your own weapons for simple practices before the Big Event?</b>

I take four or five working weapons - that's how many I have. Same for body cords.

I make sure that it all works before I get on the plane, the night before I fence, and the morning that I fence. Wash, rinse, repeat for each event.

I _always_ use my own weapons. The balance and action are different from club weapons, and there's really no point in practicing the wrong stuff before a big meet. I would suggest that, in the time before Nationals - several month still - you learn how to tend your own gear. Then you'll be stress-free when you get there, knowing that you can fix any problems that might spring up.

[Rolls]

Originally Posted by Victor

A related few questions concerning gear:

1. How many weapons do you take with you to Nationals?
2. How far in advance of the event do you make sure all your weapons are in good working order?
3. After you've confirmed they're good to go, do you still use your own weapons for simple practices before the Big Event?

1. I only have 3 weapons with me, but I plan to only use one the entire time. Usually, something will happen and might have to switch weapons maybe once or twice the entire time. But I am a rarity in this deparment. I see a LOT of people go through TONS of weapons. When I do have to switch to another weapon, I will immediately(after the bout) get the problem fixed so that I can return to using that weapon. Also, I have never broken a blade at a competition. My problems are almost always minor. If I think a blade is about to break, it won't be going to the competition with me.

2. I ALWAYS try to keep my weapons in perfect working order. Bt at Arlington I went down there with only ONE weapon. It was no sweat for me though, bceause I knew that I would get two more built there. So, I don't worry about them too much. I either have them in good working order OR I buy them there.

3. Well, the way I work my weapons is that I have one (the oldest/worst shape weapon) that I use for practice. That weapon is usually one of the 3 working weapons I plan to use in competition BUT it is my terciary choice.

Rolls.

[Artisan]

Originally Posted by Rolls

1. I only have 3 weapons with me, but I plan to only use one the entire time.
Rolls.

At epee, 5 is a good number of weapons to have, more or less depending on your level of competence at quick repairs and regular maintainence, less if you have a credit card and there are vendors and there

You can run out suprisingly fast. At nationals last summer I had 4 epees, after pools 1 broke in warmup, then one failed shims, and in the DE a third took a bad bend which I did not want to straighten during the bout for fear of breaking it. Poof - I was on my last weapon w/o a spare. Fortunately _ _ I was eliminated, so it wasn't a problem.

At a recent NAC, a ref in a round of pools used a shim that I swear was a little thin, failed one of my weapons and several others in the pool. Had I set up all my weapons right a theh verge of 0.5 mm, all would have failed. (another good reason to have a 0.45 mm shim)

[The0ne]

the bare minimum for weapons and bodycords is 2, if you don't have that many, you get a yellow card at the strip. . . I usually only have 3 working at a time, so that's how many I bring to the strip! Always check your weights the night before! I swear, the springs can contract even if the weapon is just sitting in your bag, and having springs fail is the worst!!!

[Victor]

An aside helpful tip, re spring protection: Cut a length of PVC pipe slightly longer than your foil or epee blade and slip it on for travel. That way, if your gear case should get tipped wrong-end-up, the pressure falls on the tubing and your weapon tips aren't compressed at the bottom of the bag.

[shlepzig]

I bring as many as I can to a tournament, and carry 3 to the strip. If one fails, I will run back to my bag and switch out between bouts. I just started using the screwless epee points which made adjustments much faster (but unfortunately more frequent) and I never lose a tip screw.

-wandering off topic

I clipped the ends off of tube socks, and zip tied them to the PVC (36" works perfect), so I can slip the blade in the PVC and pull the top of the sock over the foil (or epee) guard and grip. That keeps the edges of the foil guards from digging into anything else they may find as they get thrown around, and keeps the PVC from slipping off the weapon.

Shlepzig.

[Inquartata]

I always take all the weapons and cords I have. And yes, I continue to practice with them in the interim---since I fence sabre the only thing that can go wrong with them is to break a blade, which is cheaply and easily replaced at a big event. ( Body cords are more problematical. ) For that matter, I take two lames as well: my competition one and a cheap but never-used one just in case my good one fails at weapons check, so I do not have to buy one there under pressure.

A two or three day event usually costs me between $200 and $300 if I drive, exclusive of entry fees and equipment purchases. Air fare to Charlotte is going to drive that up considerably, alas. Assuming I go, that is.

[edew]

You know, I don't know why college cash-strapped fencers don't work hard at getting a referee rating. If you're able to referee and have a rating, you can attend Nationals for the whole championships (9 days), have most of your trip paid for, have most of your room paid for, have free breakfast and lunch on those days you work (and the food has gotten markedly better), and fence on the days you plan to fence. The result could actually be a net positive income.

I don't go to any national events without also refereeing some portion of it. Unless it's local like in San Jose or something. (And at the SJ NAC this January, I did referee one weekend and fenced on the second.)

[The0ne]

Yeah, that's definately something that I want to do. . . What is the USFA policy for flying people to events? I know that per diem payments have gone down, but will the USFA fly you to and house you for the duration of the event?

[darius]

If I recall correctly, they pay for your entire trip to nationals (sans meals on days you're competing) if you referee five days or more. Perfect for those who have more time than money!

George Kolombatovich is the FOC chair for nationals. You may want to get in contact with him soon.

darius

[fencingguy]

Thats a very good idea from edew. I actually just got my referee rating with that in mind. I'm hoping to seriously defray my travel costs for future NACs and nationals. What are the prerequisites for a Ref at an NAC to be flown in?

[oiuyt]

What are the prerequisites for a Ref at an NAC to be flown in?

Convincing the head FOC in charge of that event to hire you prior to the event. How easy that is depends on a variety of factors including your level as a referee, when you ask, whether or not the FOC knows you/your reffing, geographical concerns (both in trying to reduce costs and in trying for geographical distribution of the referees), etc.

For NACs/JOs the USFA will pay for a proportionate share of your airfare based on the percentage of the tournament you work (you ref 2 days of 4 they pay half, 2 of 3 they pay 2/3, etc.). For Summer Nationals there's a special case where if you work at least 5 days and they pay all travel costs. Additionally the USFA will cover hotel the night before any day you ref, feed you on days you ref (breakfast and lunch, dinner if they use you beyond 7pm, at least in theory). You would need to cover your housing on nights before you compete, other expenses, and, of course, entry fees. The USFA also pays $20/day as a per diem for any day that you work as a referee or for travel days (assuming that the travel day isn't a working/competing day) and an honorium on a tiered scale based on your referee rating (6-10 you get $20/day, 4-5 $45, 3 $65, 1-2 $100).

I know that per diem payments have gone down

Per diem is technically lower, but even a 10 gets the honorarium that brings the total up to at least the level it was before the switch. Of course honorariums are taxable income whereas per diems were not.

All of this information (and more besides) is available on the FOC website.
http://www.fencingofficials.org/
Also on the website is a "CALL FOR REFEREES FOR SUMMER NATIONALS 2004" that includes what information they want and where to send it.

Incidently, the USFA has two classes of referees, invited referees and "walk-on" referees. If you're invited then all of the above applies. If you are a certified referee, are at a NAC, etc., have the appropraite attire, etc., you can check with the bout committee and, if they need you, they might hire you for the day as a "walk-on". In that case they pay per diem and honorarium for that day but don't cover any travel costs or hotel costs. Obviously they'll only hire you in this case if they need extra assistance and feel that you're qualified. Especially at summer nationals this is a possibility if you have an off day or two in the middle of your trip and don't feel like finding out what sight seeing opportunities are available in the Charlotte area.

Refereeing can definitely help reduce trip costs if you don't include the value of your time (or happen to value it at an extremely low rate). I've refereed every event on the national calendar this year (and will work Atlanta and Charlotte), including the events where I also fenced (Palm Springs, San Jose, Atlanta). Net result is that my refereeing more than paid for my fencing expenses this season. Again, not including the value of the time expended or the opportunity costs involved with what I could otherwise have been doing with that time. A couple of my students have started doing this as well and have paid for their trips this way.

Getting invovled in refereeing and then working to improve your skills is good. In my opinion it will help improve your fencing, as well as gain a better understanding of what it is that your referee (aka the opponent to the side of the strip) is seeing when s/he makes the calls that you don't like. Even aside for the monitary benefits (which even after the increase are still significantly below what the referee's time is worth) this makes learning to referee and actually doing so a good idea. You'll end up a better fencer for the experience as well as having given something back to fencing.

-B :)

[The0ne]

Sounds like a pretty good deal, the only problem is that I work in the summer, so I wouldn't be going for the entire summer nationals this year, but next year maybe I can plan something. Time to go try and work up that ref rating!!

[edew]

I feel that my refereeing really helped improved my fencing (as well as those I help train). I know, for example, what and how referees will make calls. Even if I don't quite agree with the call (in saber, on occasions; and foil as well), I understand that's the way it's called and make sure I or my students don't make the wrong move (or rather, take advantage of that and make the right move, relative to that referee).

So, refereeing really helps out.

Of course, if you really suck at refereeing but can do some technical stuff, then join the armorers' guild. I believe the only prerequisite to join is to not bathe for a week. Jeans and t-shirts (your own, or something found in your attic or the local dumpster) are the required attire. You must also shave, but with a hacksaw. Especially if you're female.

[fencingguy]

Thanks for the info Oiyut!

I'm going to stand very far away from edew at the next circuit, I don't want to get hit by stray flying tools.