Tried new foil times

[billpealer]

Exactly Kalivor!

Compensate for the parry, lead your attack, and your oppenent will guide your weapon into themselves.

Darius!!!! I am so comming for you baby! I moved 350 miles from you! and i still can't escape. Escape was not the right decision! Oh I'm training like nothing else now!

[darius]

Compensate for the parry, lead your attack, and your oppenent will guide your weapon into themselves.

Sure, anticipate and compensate all you want. I'll let the ref call "parry-riposte". It's not like target shooting, where you lead the moving object...if your opponent's blade gets to your blade, the attack est finis. Done. Dead. Over.

Doesn't matter if your momentum powers through and you hit anyway. And it's better that way. You set up the distance and timing so that you hit *before* your opponent's blade becomes an issue. That takes more skill and forethought than getting parried and then claiming, "Uhm, I was planning that all along!"

Darius!!!! I am so comming for you baby!

Any time!

777 Culver Rd / Rochester, NY. Across from East High School, above Lorraine's Lunch Basket. My home away from home.

Oh I'm training like nothing else now!

I'm getting old and arthritic. See you at sectionals on LI?

darius

[billpealer]

And dude how can you cay that a slo-mo warble of the blade that makes the tip deviate for fractions of second, is a parry? Threatening attacks can not be judged by where it is in mid flight, but where it ends up when the eagle has landed. And if the parry was good, I should have missed instead of being taken to 4. If my one time move (lunge deceptivley aimed at 6) was parried, why am 2 inches deep in his 4?
And you still never proved the tennis point. To achieve the 150 mile an hour serve is not a gross change in the sport. Neither is players hanging out at the baseline. He still serves over hand, with a high toss, and a little spin. It looks like the same serve thay had 50 years ago. Roddick just really cranks it.

AND

Kalivor, Im still not sure you were being genuine or sarcastic. it was not a remise because it was all with one motion, one time. I lunge 6, and by the time my lunge ends I am at 4 and on target. A remise would have to follow a failed attack, or a succesful parry. If the parry was succesful i wouldnt be stuck deep in the 4 off of one smooth forward motion.

[billpealer]

Sectionals at Long Island? Arent the empire state game qualifing rounds soon/>? I live in stamford now, so... But i work in new york, and am in the city everyday. I can make it to long island why not. can i still fence in the empire state games if i live in stamford?

I'm not coming back to Rochester till it warms up. i came last month and we got like 8 inches,. screw that!

[billpealer]

billpealer@yahoo.com

If you could send me any info on up comming events i'd be much obliged Darius, you bane on my existance!

Arthritic are you serious? Are you sure? Thats terrible man. I think at 27 i just finished my growth spurt. my knees have never felt better.

[fencerontheline]

Bill,
You don't seem to have a very good grip on how right of way is called. I'd suggest living in the real world for a little while. Consider it my advice, it's good crosstraining for fencing.

~Mike Dote

[Schiavona]

Fun thread! Just two things.

I was always taught that for a parry to be sucessful the point must be deflected from the opponent's target, "A mere grazing of the blades is not sufficent".
Billpealer, your attack in 6 land in 4 sounds more like a referee problem rather than a 'global' problem in fencing. Referees aren't perfect, learn to fence what they can see.(But I'm sure you know that! )

Second and off topic; the whole McDonalds coffee thing. The woman in question recieved 3rd degree burns and needed skin graphs. Also her large settlement was later over turned. McDonalds was responsible. This was not a "junk" lawsuit.

[achilleus]

Bill,

You make me laugh. You're a funny guy, you know very little about competitive fencing, but I like ya...

if you attempted to parry and made no contact with his blade, no it would be impossible to class that as a riposte. If you made contact with his weapon during your mal parry and then extended, or you parried with point in line (which how i was tought every 4 and 6 should be) , yet his disengage was still good, and there were two lights, around here, the mal parry would get the vote. Because contact was made.

You have me confused here. You said that all a parry has to is alter the attack, not stop it.

I presented a situation where the attack was altered.

Now, you say it's not a parry?

My first experience with this was in Rochester (ny)in 2001. My opponent was pretty much circling 4 the entire bout, so i would lunge to his 6 knowing he'd take my blade to his left with his circle 4, my lunge being fast and deep, would hit his 4 everytime, yet after redirecting my attack to his 4 he would riposte (whip over to my spine). We would 2 light, he would get the point. After loosing 3 points in a row with this. I gave up. I no longer use planned attacks that take into acount light parrys and or people who parry the blade as so that attacks cross their chest. kinda like leading when you shoot trap. if you know how they will parry they will take your blade into them.
It is my belief that my lunge to the 6 knowing i'd be parryed to 4 is not successful parry because thats what i wanted to do. my intent was that. ThaT was my attack. I was not remesing. That wasn't a parry. I wanted you to do that.

Now you're either contradicting yourself, or just not explaining things well. In a previous post you complained of a fencer hitting you in the back by flicking through your parry. Your attempted parry obviously didn't stop their attack from arriving, how do you think it's different from the situation above? Your attack was 'altered' by the parry.

Now, on to how things are called. Your belief is just that, yours. It's not shared by any competitive foil fencer or foil coach I've ever spoken with. If the defender searches, finds the blade before the attack arrives, and deflects the point, it's a parry.

If the riposte begins before the defender is hit, it's in time.

In other words, in the situation you describe above, if the defender started to riposte before you hit, it's his riposte, and you're remise.


Your tactic is actually quite a useful tactic, in epee.

[Alan]

I don't think spectators love it. Poeple that i have brought to tournaments have no idea what it is. They can watch a sabre match and understand the process. Epee`, no problem. But when they watch foil, they say,. how is this sword fighting? I think it is foolish to skate around the truth.

I see the exact opposite. Everytime i show fencing to non fencers they
prefer foil because it is more spectacular and in foil they just love flicks

(i am of course speaking of real foil here not this foilepee created by the test
timings)

I am the last person who cares about foil telegeny but that's a fact.

Easy to prove : take a few non fencers and show them the final in La Corugna
and the semi-final of Athens where Brice Guyart came back from 12-7
to defeat master flicker Andrea Cassara (such a come-back would be alsmost impossible with Foilepee).

Guess which one they will prefer ...

[andrewmcleod]

It seems some people don't actually know what the rules say is a parry...
A parry is an action made with the blade that causes the attack to fail. It will do this by causing the attack to stop threatening target. It's easier to describe what a remise is, so I'll try. A remise is where you have to re-aim your point to hit, having had your tip knocked off target, even fractionally.
A flick that whips around a parry has not been parried.
Equally, an angulated attack that in one motion WITHOUT being taken off the target hits with the initial attack has not been parried.

A good referee will see if the initial attack lands, or if there is a remise, but if done properly there will be a big delay between the attack hitting and the riposte hitting anyway (if there isn't, it was probably a remise).

PS you only have to make blade contact before the final action of a compound attack to cause it to fail. A disengage attack is not a compound action.

[darius]

I was always taught that for a parry to be sucessful the point must be deflected from the opponent's target, "A mere grazing of the blades is not sufficent". Billpealer, your attack in 6 land in 4 sounds more like a referee problem rather than a 'global' problem in fencing.

Nope, it sounds correct, from the ref's standpoint, as long as the referee thought that the contact was sufficient.

How does a referee tell whether the click of a parry was enough to clear the point from target? Perhaps we could have "angle judges", who could watch from every side, and indicate whether the tip was appropriately deflected.

Or, we could assume that if a material contact is made (not a mere grazing, but the click of blade-on-blade contact) that it is a parry.

darius

[Jarentz]

Yes! Ain't it GREAT! That kind of fencing is the BEST! Steel clashing. Swashbuckling. I love it when you can smell the ozone produced by the clanging of two blades.

I agree
the best effect of the new timings is that there are longer phrases, more parries, ripostes, counterripostes. That's the best fencing, I think it rocks!

[jeff]

Nope, it sounds correct, from the ref's standpoint, as long as the referee thought that the contact was sufficient.

How does a referee tell whether the click of a parry was enough to clear the point from target? Perhaps we could have "angle judges", who could watch from every side, and indicate whether the tip was appropriately deflected.

Or, we could assume that if a material contact is made (not a mere grazing, but the click of blade-on-blade contact) that it is a parry.

darius

On exactly this subject, see a very traditional source in the post http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...elli#post83871

"The director is not a protractor".

[billpealer]

Oh i know how matches are called, and i Do change the way i fence so that i get results. I'm not out there to lose. Every tournament i go to i get better, and understand more how to rack up points.

I just like fencing to the ideal. Fence as though the blade was sharp. Not fence as though you have a button on the end of a fishing pole. But i guess the state of things, thats what we do. I think we should definalty change our art work and logo. Some thing along the lines of bent arms, and rainbowing blades.

So the sword is dead, long live fencing.

fencing

n 1: a barrier that serves to enclose an area [syn: fence] 2: material for building fences [syn: fencing material] 3: the art or sport of fighting with swords.

The last time i had a fencing lesson that had anything to do with a sword was from Gloria in 1996. God rest your soul.

[billpealer]

Jeff thats my point exaclty, the contact was NOT enough and the defender took my point from 6 to 4 and walked right into the lunge during his so called riposte. if he was going to take my blade from 6 to 4, then he better make sure its cleard the 4, not just deviated from the 6.

[billpealer]

oh and just so you guys know,. 99% of the time, i know that i am wrong. I just dont know why.

[Jarentz]

Foil fencing is a modern sport but it’s supposed to simulate sword fighting.
With a real sword you couldn’t just whip your opponent in the back with it.
You’d get killed even trying to do it.
For the long history of foil fencing it was never intended that touches were supposed to be scored this way. Foil fencing has been practiced for over 300 years, the “flick” has been with us for about 10.

The flick needs to be removed from the game so foil can get back to what it’s supposed to be.
It’s not necessary to make it technically impossible, just drop the effectiveness of the action below 50% and it will die an a natural death.

[ChubbyHubby]

I agree
the best effect of the new timings is that there are longer phrases, more parries, ripostes, counterripostes. That's the best fencing, I think it rocks!

At lower levels it more like longer "phrases" as in attack no, counter no, remise, remise, remise.

At world cup levels, there is less blade work as counter attacking is working great now. See the footage from latest A-Grades...

yawn.

So the sword is dead, long live fencing.

That's what you need to do to win. Forget the "if it were sharp" stuff.

Hell, if it were sharp most people wouldn't be fencing

[ChubbyHubby]

So the sword is dead, long live fencing.

That's what you need to do to win. Forget the "if it were sharp" stuff.

Hell, if it were sharp most people wouldn't be fencing

[Alan]

Foil fencing is a modern sport but it’s supposed to simulate sword fighting.

Ya and Tennis comes from Jeu de Paume.

Tennis needs his King René also to stop its evolution and come back
to the Jeu de PAume tradition