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Thread: Fastest moving objects in sport

  1. #1
    Senior Member C.J.'s Avatar
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    Fastest moving objects in sport

    1. jai-alai ball
    2. Shuttlecock(badminton)
    3. Tip of fencing blade

    Here are some of my random thoughts:
    1. Does anyone have any idea what a jai-alai ball is?
    2. When they say "the tip of a fencing blade" are they referring to a foil, a saber, or an epee? Since the length of a foil differs from that of a saber, it think it matters physically.
    3. I think the tip of a fencing blade is the fast moving object an athlet in any sport has to deal with because it needs to travel a lot less distance to reach the opponent than a shuttlecock, or a tennis ball.(NASCAR is not a sport)
    Last edited by C.J.; 03-21-2004 at 12:49 PM.
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  2. #2
    eri
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    Jai-Alai is like a very fast game of hand-ball. I think its popular in Latin/South American countries.

    http://www.fla-gaming.com/rules.htm

    And where did you find this info? Its interesting...
    Last edited by eri; 03-20-2004 at 11:22 PM.

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    whoa...considering tennis balls can be served at 125mph...just how fast are these things moving?!

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    Senior Member Artisan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor
    whoa...considering tennis balls can be served at 125mph...just how fast are these things moving?!
    From:
    http://www.bsudailynews.com/vnews/di.../3f66bbbdd9bd0


    "It's a good thing, too. According to the Guinness Book of World Records Jose Ramon Areitio of Newport, R.I., made Jai-Alai the fastest ball sport in the world when he threw a ball at 188 mph. That speed, by the way, is faster than Jeff Green's pole-winning speed at this year's Daytona 500. Randy Johnson, eat your heart out."

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    I'd imagine that the muzzle velocity of a round leaving any standard target pistol / rifle has got us whipped by a pretty significant margin.
    It came out of what men were, but it did not go as men had planned. The Almighty had his own purposes.

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    Senior Member Aeric's Avatar
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    I think he's referring to the speed of any land-based, non-firearm sport.

    I'd have to agree that fencing is pretty high up there.

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    Senior Member J.Harris's Avatar
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    what about an ice hockey puck?
    Where did you get those three from? I find it hard to imagine a fencing blade moving faster than a cricket ball or pretty much any other raquet/ball sport.

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    Senior Member C.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor
    whoa...considering tennis balls can be served at 125mph...just how fast are these things moving?!
    I think, for tennis, the record is set by Andy Rodick of US of A, at 140 mph.
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    Senior Member wflaschka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Harris
    what about an ice hockey puck?
    Where did you get those three from? I find it hard to imagine a fencing blade moving faster than a cricket ball or pretty much any other raquet/ball sport.
    I figure they're measuring the tip-speed during a flick. Or more, the tip-speed during a chest whip that has been parried halfway down the blade. In some DVD video I've captured (24+ fps) the tip is completely lost for 6-12 inches at a time. I've never heard a sonic boom, but I'm sure it gets pretty fast. A tip detatching from the blade at its fastest rate might have the speed of an arrow, or a (very expensive highly machined) musket ball.

    /not a scientist guy

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    Senior Member Epeecurean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wflaschka
    I figure they're measuring the tip-speed during a flick. Or more, the tip-speed during a chest whip that has been parried halfway down the blade. In some DVD video I've captured (24+ fps) the tip is completely lost for 6-12 inches at a time. I've never heard a sonic boom, but I'm sure it gets pretty fast. A tip detatching from the blade at its fastest rate might have the speed of an arrow, or a (very expensive highly machined) musket ball.

    /not a scientist guy
    Apparently the FIE is considering a rule that flick-whips not only have to meet the 15ms contact time minimum but also have to make a sonic boom when the touch is delivered.
    Have Sword - Will Travel

  11. #11
    Senior Member C.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Harris
    what about an ice hockey puck?
    Where did you get those three from? I find it hard to imagine a fencing blade moving faster than a cricket ball or pretty much any other raquet/ball sport.
    The speed of a hockey puck is only about 100 mph, which is about as fast as Randy Johnson can pitch a baseball.

    http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/shooting1.html

    Theoretically speaking, if you put a foil in Randy Johnson's hand, he could flick the tip of it at the ratio of the length of the foil vs his arm, plus 1, multiplied by 100 mph.
    Last edited by C.J.; 03-21-2004 at 01:52 PM.
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    Senior Member kalivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Harris
    what about an ice hockey puck?
    Where did you get those three from? I find it hard to imagine a fencing blade moving faster than a cricket ball or pretty much any other raquet/ball sport.
    The NHL has a "hardest shot" contest at the All-Star game every year. The winners typically clock around 100 mph, so it's well below tennis and baseball, at the very least.

    As for the tip of a fencing blade, there are times when you can *hear* the blade moving through the air. Think of how fast much more massive objects must be before you can hear them pushing aside the air (not just hear motors, etc). That's pretty fast. The tip moves even faster, particularly during flicks (or partially parried flicks, as has been pointed out).

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    Senior Member sabreur's Avatar
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    Kiddies,

    I hate to say it, but you need to do the math.

    Assume a 36 inch foil, an 18 inch forearm (elbow to middle of hand), that the action moves the tip 90 degrees, in one-tenth of one second (which would be really fast...)

    The tip is therefore moving through an arc whose length is defined by 2(54)pi/4, or 84 inches. If you do the math, you will find that this amounts to a speed of about 50 miles an hour. If you assume our super flicker is also moving forward at 40 inches per 0.1 seconds (world class sprinter speed), you will find that adds 23 or 24 miles an hour--so the speed the tip reaches in a flick probably does not exceed 80 miles per hour maximum.

    The flick is not executed with nearly the concentrated force of a big league baseball pitch or a hockey slapshot--just think about what goes into a pitch--stride, open the hips, shoulder turn, upper arm, elbow, wrist...

    And change of tempo is actually much more important to success than pure speed--someone who moves fast, but linearly, with little change in speed, is relatively easy to parry. It is much harder to gauge changes in speed.

    MR
    Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.

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    Senior Member C.J.'s Avatar
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    Yes, but your estimate is only for the speed of a normal advance lunge. What about whipovers, fleches, and when a fencer is flicking like he is pitching a baseball?
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    Senior Member sabreur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.
    Yes, but your estimate is only for the speed of a normal advance lunge. What about whipovers, fleches, and when a fencer is flicking like he is pitching a baseball?
    Read it again--I'm assuming a flick delivered in a tenth of a second with a 90 degree movement from the elbow, and a fencer who is moving forward at 10 second/100 meter speed (highly unlikely).

    MR
    Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.

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    Senior Member C.J.'s Avatar
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    There is your fallacy. Just because the hypothetical fencer was a world class sprinter doesn't mean you could ignore the upper arm motion. Circular motion is simply much faster than linear motion, and you can not just add one to another. According to your calculation, a crippled kid could flick as fast as your world class runner if he uses his upper arm.
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    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Theoretically speaking, if you put a foil in Randy Johnson's hand, he could flick the tip of it at the ratio of the length of the foil vs his arm, plus 1, multiplied by 100 mph.
    Can you IMAGINE him as a fencer with his reach? I mean, he could nail you without even leaving his on guards line!
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

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    Member Delmont91's Avatar
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    A paintball leaves the barrel going around 190 mph, why isn't that one up there.... And we get hit with those things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmont91
    A paintball leaves the barrel going around 190 mph, why isn't that one up there.... And we get hit with those things
    Cuz paintball is as much of a sport as laser tag...
    -Kevin

  20. #20
    Member Delmont91's Avatar
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    Hey boyo, if stabbing people with fake swords is a sport, so is paintball. It takes just as much, if not more, work and physical ability. Don't get me wrong, I love fencing, but paintball is as much a sport as fencing, or anything else.

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