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anisa · 03-20-2004, 02:14 PM

If I hold my epee by the pommel, what would be the 'optimal' balance point (how far from the hilt)? Some of my weapons feel 'top heavy' and I am thinking of switching to heavier pommels to adjust for this.

veeco · 03-20-2004, 05:43 PM

It's hard to give a definite answer. It sort of depends on how you hold your weapon, where you hold it, how it feels in your hand. The cant can also play a big part in this.

The best way for your to find is to try out different solutions, ask for advice from people around you so they can touch and balance the weapon, etc.

anisa · 03-20-2004, 06:47 PM

Thanks. I guess I should have anticipated that answer...

MyraTrue · 03-20-2004, 07:45 PM

see, Veeco's answer is far better than mind. I just know that I've seen some interesting ballances depending on the blade and the guard. The one thing I can say for owning a French grip would be that you CAN change the pommel to alter the ballance point. Sadly, I fence with heavy blades and light grips and guards, so I find my ballance point to be about 4 inches down the blade from the guard.

Now quite what I like, but I can still hit someone... so...

As perhaps an addition- is it possible to fence with another weapon for a day and see what you think? If you happen to belong to a club or group with a variety of weapons, you might be able to find someone with a differently ballanced weapon. And if anything, it might tell you first-hand what you like and don't like.

Good luck

EricS · 03-20-2004, 09:02 PM

Many French grip epees incorrectly use foil pommels. Since the epee blades are heavier and the tips are heavier, correct balance requires a larger and heavier pommel. Try it and see--the heavier pommels make a huge difference.

laughingduelist · 03-20-2004, 10:36 PM

right where the grip meets the guard. Takes a lot of fiddling to do though.

telkanuru · 03-20-2004, 11:36 PM

Nifty trick. If you rest the blade on one finger on each hand, and slowly bring them togeather from each end with the same force applied to each, you find the center of gravity (balance point) of the weapon. For a classic french or pistol grip hold, the ideal CoG should be close to the guard, so that you may disengage with your fingers, etc, as your pointer finger acts as a fulcrum. If you're pommeling, then I would think you would want your CoG as close to your hand as possible. Moreover, the farther the CoG is from your hand, the heavier the blade will feel, especially after extended use.

Artisan · 03-21-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anisa

If I hold my epee by the pommel, what would be the 'optimal' balance point (how far from the hilt)? Some of my weapons feel 'top heavy' and I am thinking of switching to heavier pommels to adjust for this.

You may find that a heavier pommel and or guard help the balance point some, but at the cost of making the entire weapon heavier. so you may be trading tip speed / accuracy for arm fatigue and slowness.

For you pistol Grippers, a russian grip with a Steel guard will balance an epee more nicely than a light visconti and Alum guard, but brings the total weight from about 400 g to 500 g.
Is 100 g (3 oz) significant? Ask a boxer about 12 oz gloves and 14-16 oz gloves...

anisa · 03-21-2004, 06:16 AM

Many thanks for the good advise!
I take my chances with a follow-up question...
My main problem is my LP maraging epees. I like them because they are light, but I am not quite satisfied with their 'feel'. When I checked the CoG I noticed that it was located quite far from the guard - further away from the guard than on my other weapons. I have decided now that I want to try a heavier pommel, but where can I find one that fits a LP blade? My allstar pommels certainly don't...

veeco · 03-21-2004, 11:31 AM

The pommel will fit on any blade, since the threading is now standard metric size. However, it will not fit on all handles. Leon Paul carbon fibre handles don't use pommels. You will have to purchase a separate handle to use a heavy pommel with it.

Good handles and pommels that people have been using here are the Schermasport ones:

http://www.negrini.com/Art554S.htm

Or the Prieur/Cartel ones:

http://www.cartel-escrime.com/catalo...roducts_id=149

MyraTrue · 03-22-2004, 10:33 AM

I checked over my epees last night, and the CoG is some good 5 inches from the guard

. So since I happen to have this handy thread...

is there anything to be done about this WITHOUT changing the light weight guard or the visconti grip? I don't think there is.

I've had wrist problems in the past, so I generally try to use as light a weapon (but no foil, PLEASE, no foil). Am I just stuck with this?

DHCJr · 03-22-2004, 11:28 AM

What type of pommel do you have. Even with pistol grips there are different weights. And as Dave said earlier, balancing the weapon can do a lot, no mater where the balance point is.

Leon Paul has a much heavier pommel. The problem is it will take you drilling out the handle and it takes a different wrench. It is designed for the plastic Belgium.

veeco · 03-22-2004, 12:13 PM

I think that if you want to change the balance of the weapon you will have 2 options:

1- Make the far end of it lighter (quite difficult within the current rules: that would mean using a ligther tip or a lighter blade, or if you are of the nitpicky kind using a lighter glue!?).
2- Make the near end of it heavier, which you don't seem to want to do. To make it as heavy as possible but not too heavy I've seen and heard some people use fishing weights (those little lead balls that you stick on a fishing line to make it sink). They come in various shapes and weights, and putting them in your grip would allow you to fine tune the balance of your weapon.

MyraTrue · 03-22-2004, 12:17 PM

Thanks Veeco... I might be able to put a weight plug down into the some of my grips. Most of them had to be drilled because the blades had been cut for a XS visconti.

Artisan · 03-22-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyraTrue

I checked over my epees last night, and the CoG is some good 5 inches from the guard

. So since I happen to have this handy thread...

is there anything to be done about this WITHOUT changing the light weight guard or the visconti grip? I don't think there is.

I've had wrist problems in the past, so I generally try to use as light a weapon (but no foil, PLEASE, no foil). Am I just stuck with this?

The wrist problem may be exascerbated more by the imbalance than the overall weight. Reconsider making the backend heavier, either add weight to existing grip somehow, change to a russian grip, heavier guard, add weight to guard, etc...

I just put together a nicely balanced Epee:
Fleche blade (from Blade - $26, good stiff, and CHEAP)
BG alum Guard
Russian grip (filed out some for comfort)
Total weight is 460 G
Balance is just under 3" from guard

Good balance often makes a weapon "Feel" much lighter!

anisa · 03-22-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veeco

The pommel will fit on any blade, since the threading is now standard metric size. However, it will not fit on all handles. Leon Paul carbon fibre handles don't use pommels. You will have to purchase a separate handle to use a heavy pommel with it.

Maybe its a language problem but I don't see how the pommel will fit any blade. The 'tang' of my Leon Paul blade does not have any threading but a loose `nut´with threading on the outside... I have tried various grips and pommels from other weapons and nothing fits

veeco · 03-22-2004, 04:18 PM

No, it's not a language problem, I just found out about the problem on the Leon Paul website:

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Ep_..._and_Nuts.html

AAAAaaargh! I can't believe Leon Paul came up with this idea... So basically, once you buy a blade from Leon Paul with a French grip from Leon Paul, you're screwed. You cannot change to another Non Leon Paul French grip....

This has got to be the most non-standard horrific thing. I don't even understand what's the benefit of it. There is no compatibility with the other vendor's parts at all, and you have to make a slot in the blade to be able to use their pommels, which weakens the tang and makes it more prone to break. Finally you add another part to the whole French grip thing which is supposed to be simple and easy to understand. And let's not talk about the fact that you probably would have a hard time bending those grips as you would probably break the tang at the exact place it is slotted.

I am really surprised this sort of design comes from a company that touts themselves as "the future of fencing".

DHCJr · 03-22-2004, 04:51 PM

It is the pommel you can't switch. You can change handles. In fact you can switch to a orthopedic handle, by cutting down the tang and rethreading. 2 and 3 piece pommels go way back. Leon Paul is the only one to still have them.

anisa · 03-23-2004, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

In fact you can switch to a orthopedic handle, by cutting down the tang and rethreading.

If I wanted an orthopedic handle, that is

But you are right of course, thanks!

There is a small empty space inside the existing pommel, I'll try adding some weight there, though I doubt it will be enough to make much difference.
Maybe it's possible to modify a heavier non-LP pommel to fit an LP tang somehow... (?)

qatet · 03-23-2004, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anisa

If I wanted an orthopedic handle, that is

But you are right of course, thanks!

There is a small empty space inside the existing pommel, I'll try adding some weight there, though I doubt it will be enough to make much difference.
Maybe it's possible to modify a heavier non-LP pommel to fit an LP tang somehow... (?)

I don't know if they still exist, but fishing supply stores used to carry what looked like a matchbook full of twist-on lead strips. You would twist them around your fishing line to make it sink. These might be a good option if you need a way to add weight in there.