Certification to be a Fencing Coach?

[Grey]

I was wondering, if you wanted to be a coach... is there any place which you can go to, to undertake an examination or a course? Perhaps some proper procedures to be done with?

If so, is there any based on traditional/classical italian fencing style?

[Purple Fencer]

I was wondering, if you wanted to be a coach... is there any place which you can go to, to undertake an examination or a course? Perhaps some proper procedures to be done with?

If so, is there any based on traditional/classical italian fencing style?

There are...there's a coach's college in the US every year (although I don't think it's beiung held this year due to the Olympics).

But in some cases the coach is just someone who knows the sport. That's what happened to me. We had a girl at SwordPlay who wanted to learn sabre...I was the only person at the salle who DID sabre...thus I got asked to teach her. 1 year or so later she did her first tournament -- did NOT come in DFL -- and it looked like I actually taught her something. I would love to GO to coaches college so I can learn to better instruct her, but in the meantime I do the best I can...

I only call myself her "coach" by the longest stretch, tho! I don;t think the title really applies to me just yet.

[veeco]

The coaches college holds exams to accredit coaches. There are 3 levels, Moniteur, Prevost, and Maitre d'Armes.

You can read more about it there: http://www.usfca.org/usfca/

[westcoastsabre]

i believe the US fencing coaches association (which deals with the moniteur, provost, maitre classifications) is seperate from the Coaches College which deals more heavily in education and less on rating.

[Tireur]

That's correct. I don't believe the usfca recognizes the usfa coaches certification.

They didn't, then they did, then they didn't again......blah blah blah.....

[veeco]

You're right. By coaches college I meant USFCA, my bad. The only excuse I can find would be that I was coerced into that line of thought from Purple Fencer, and it's getting quite late over here ;-).

[SJB]

By learning traditional/classical style you're doing a disservice to your future students by forever damning them to never have a decent result in a tournament.

If you're going to coach fencing for the love of all that's holy learn to do it right.

[PainFence]

By learning traditional/classical style you're doing a disservice to your future students by forever damning them to never have a decent result in a tournament.

If you're going to coach fencing for the love of all that's holy learn to do it right.

I would not say damning them. I fence with a very classical style and do quite well, thanks.

That said, and to be clear, I do not mean "Classical = All modern is bad and we should fence like pictures from 1760." I mean classical, lots of point in line, ano flicking, more than 3 parries, and remembering when fencing was more than a sport.

[PainFence]

You know, all that indignation and I did not actually reply to the thread.

I have no idea how one gets a coaching cert. There are various ways to get a Master rating, some better than others.

As for finding a classical coach, one that whose lessons will also let you (and then your students) do well in competion (modern tourneys, not the classical circuit), will take some searching. When looking, you should do some talking before taking lessons. Make sure the coach knows what you are looking for. Avoid coachs who hold modern or classical styles in contempt, since they will ultimate limit what you think and do. Find and read books, preferably published origionally before 1960.

[WJM]

Ach, I hate replying...
The coaches college leans towards the current "olympic" style fencing more than the USFCA. The USFCA leans (overall, not all of it's members are classical) slightly more classical. Both (to me) seem to lean a little towards "classic" (not classical) fencing. I paid dues to the USFCA for 3 years, and after a great deal of discussion, and promises, they managed to not give me a single thing for all the money other than their newsletter. In fact they still haven't managed to hold a class or certification anyplace closer to Illinois other than at their annual meeting a few years back in Penn. or in the club of the USFCA president in San Antonio. The coaches college is in CO almost every year, costs a few hundred $$$ depending on the number of classes you want to take. To directly answer your question about getting certs in "classical italian fencing" you'd probably find a perfect fit at William Gaugler's program at San Jose State Univ. You can find some of his books about the teaching of it at your local bookstore or online to give you an idea of what you'd be getting into. Check out http://home.pacbell.net/parsec-e/Pages/fmp.html for a more detailed info on that program.

THAT said, I do not personally believe you will attain the skills to produce competitive fencers effective at a regional or national level of USFA competition through these courses. While I respect what these courses are doing, the best way to improve your coaching skills is to develop ties with other fencing coaches at the highest levels, take lessons from them, ask lots of questions, etc. I couldn't begin to describe what I've learned from all the wonderful coaches in the USA who have so willingly taken time from their schedules to help me. One of our current national coaches has bent over backwards on more than one occation to help me out just to help out a young developing coach. All of the above programs are worthwhile and probably a lot of fun, and if I had time and money to do them, it would probably be a great time...but I'm not sure it would do much, if anything for my skills as a coach.
-Will
Head Trainer, Naperville Fencing Club
www.napervillefencing.com
Sec, IL Div-USFA

[wflaschka]

I have no idea how one gets a coaching cert. There are various ways to get a Master rating, some better than others.

Someday soon, I'll be going on the USFCA certification track. The USFA coaches college also sounds nice, but it's not easy for many coaches to find 1+ weeks to disappear into Colorado.

But I agree that the best certification are happy and productive students. If the fencers are improving rapidly, then that's usually enough. Real certifications/diplomas are most useful for when coaches relocate and have to provide bona fides, or are trying to get paying gigs.

[wflaschka]

I have no idea how one gets a coaching cert. There are various ways to get a Master rating, some better than others.

Someday soon, I'll be going on the USFCA certification track. The USFA coaches college also sounds nice, but it's not easy for many coaches to find 1+ weeks to disappear into Colorado.

But I agree that the best certification are happy and productive students. If the fencers are improving rapidly, then that's usually enough. Real certifications/diplomas are most useful for when coaches relocate and have to provide bona fides, or are trying to get paying gigs.

[SJB]

That said, and to be clear, I do not mean "Classical = All modern is bad and we should fence like pictures from 1760." I mean classical, lots of point in line, ano flicking, more than 3 parries, and remembering when fencing was more than a sport.

PF, the idea that pops into my head when I hear classical fencing is the exact description you described. ie. Nick Evangelista etc.

There's nothing wrong with having classical basics as they do provide a solid foundation.

However, not flicking and not being taught how to flick is a bad technical idea since it prevents you from knowing how to defend yourself against it.

Grey, the Canadian Fencing Federation lists all of the coaching manuals for our coaching programs here:http://www.fencing.ca/coaching_manuals/manuals.htm
Though almost older than I am they still have some good information. Plus, they're free.

[BrianH]

I have a Moniteur d'Escrime certification from the US Fencing Coaches Association in all three weapons. It is helpful when you want to teach fencing and need some sort of credentials; I teach at a community college and it is accepted there, and probably would be at community centers and the like. It is not a full professional qualification like Maitre would be, and there might be some liability problems. Perhaps like a brown belt teaching karate. I took both written and practical (teaching) exams for the certificate (which looks really cool).

BH

[Grey]

Thanks for your clarifications. Being a classical fencer does not mean you do not learn how to flick and what not about learning to parry flick. Personally, I've learn flick in order to counter it and understand how to parry it. However I use thrusts more often, up to 95% of my bouts consist of thrust. Only the few 5% are occasional flicks.

[Victor]

Moniteur here as well. Intend to earn my prevost sometime soon (not this year, though).

Hnh. I don't suppose Craig would consider inserting yet another data element in our user profiles? Not that it matters much to me, or I would have said mentioned it earlier. But I know a lot of folks actually *do* look for documented pedigrees before they trust anyone's opinion or advice. (To them, experience means zilcho unless you gots a degree.)