Offensive epee

[suregrip]

I tend to be a defensive fencer. I'm not tall, (bad luck when you fence epee) so I really have to keep distance from my opponents who have a much longer reach. Unfortunately, I find that if I go on the offensive, I'm usually picked clean. If I wait for my opponent to attack, my chances of scoring go way up. Any advice out there for a short epee fencer who would like to get a little aggressive but doesn't quite know how to do it yet?

[Fechter1]

I tend to be a defensive fencer. I'm not tall, (bad luck when you fence epee) so I really have to keep distance from my opponents who have a much longer reach. Unfortunately, I find that if I go on the offensive, I'm usually picked clean. If I wait for my opponent to attack, my chances of scoring go way up. Any advice out there for a short epee fencer who would like to get a little aggressive but doesn't quite know how to do it yet?

This might be rehashing old advice, but what the hey.

Why do people think height is such an overwhelming advantage in epee? Granted, at the beginner level, when all you know to do is stick your arm out, it might work, but once you get to the serious tournaments, it doesn't really matter. Yes, it CAN be an adantage, but it can just as easily be overcome if you know how. And here goes:
1- Get their blade. If you have control over your opponent's blade, he can't hit you. Simple as that. You might have to prepare more to get the blade in a position where you can trap it.
2- Stay out of the middle distance. One advantage of height that is not often considered (most people only register arm length), is lunge distance. Hence, stay far enough away that your opponent can't reach you with a simple lunge. When you do close distance, do so quickly, preferably with control of the blade, and get in close. A lot of (mid-level, granted) tall fencers are not as good at infighting.
3- Play with the distance. This might actually be part of (2), but it's an important enough concept. Use your opponent's movements to 'speed up' your attacks. Attacking at the right time (such as just as your opponent starts moving forward) can make you seem a lot faster than you actually are. If nothing else, it'll enable you to collapse distance very quickly.

In short, stay out of reach, prepare, pick the right time, and trap the blade when you go.

Hope that helps.

[Fechter1]

Granted, I don't have much personal experience in that area, as I am one of those tall fencers (6'5"). That's just what I've seen work (on me as well).

[Epeecurean]

I tend to be a defensive fencer. I'm not tall, (bad luck when you fence epee) so I really have to keep distance from my opponents who have a much longer reach. Unfortunately, I find that if I go on the offensive, I'm usually picked clean. If I wait for my opponent to attack, my chances of scoring go way up. Any advice out there for a short epee fencer who would like to get a little aggressive but doesn't quite know how to do it yet?

In epee your attacks always face the constant threat of counter-attack. This is true regardless of the size of your opponent but it is particularly a problem with taller fencers who can simply outreach you. A few solutions:

Attack with taking, making sure you close the distance fast enough so your opponent can't slip off your blade. Remember the forward pressure of your guard on his blade is what makes it difficult for him to slip off. If you aren't closing distance fast enough then there isn't sufficient forward pressure so you will have to substitute sideways pressure while you close the distance so they can't free their blade. This means transfer/bind/enveloppement.

Hopefully you are faster than the big lumbering oaf. However, it can be tricky to close distance on a taller fencer intent on keeping a long distance (that is, out of your distance but in his). So a better tactic might be....

Countertime, where you execute a false attack to draw out his counter-attack and then you are ready with a riposte or a counter-counter-attack (most likely a flick to his hand, it being the closest target). The advantage here is that the tall fencer is somewhat pre-programmed to look for these counter-attacks, so he should be relatively easier to set up this way and he will be striving to close the distance himself, making it easier for you to reach him.

Cheers,
Epeecurean

[Victor]

Stop thinking in black-and-white terms of offense OR defense. Even a seemingly 'defensive' move can be used as an offensive prep, IF you have the proper mental attitude and training to turn it to your advantage.

Those who fence foil and saber may believe this to a certain degree about their weapons training, but it is doubly true in epee.

[veeco]

I believe Victor raises a very good point here. If you are small, you need to trick your opponent more. A defensive move (Parry) can have a lot of offensive implications.

If your opponent is attacking you in a specific line, you can usually parry in several ways. Showing a pattern where you parry the same way will draw your opponent to react specifically. You can then turn that to your advantage and take the blade where it will be, anticipating on your opponen'ts response.

For instance, let's say you want to take your opponent's blade in a high line. Beating a couple of times your opponent's blade in 2nd will force him to disengage in a high line, leaving him vulnerable to a counter 6 with opposition...

[The0ne]

Yeah that is a very good point, that's kind of how I try and fence my foil game too, not get stuck in just defending or attacking, and staying free with actions. . .

[edew]

As you know, the attacker in epee has a distinct disadvantage. When you attack in epee, you show your cards: your opponent knows you're attacking. The opponent, however, is free to do anything else: retreat, attack back, parry, displace target. Remember, since there's no right of way, the defender is not obliged to do a defensive action.

So, as a rule, don't do the offensive. Taunt your opponent into doing the offensive and then knock'em down.

[veeco]

I think it's true only to a point edew. There comes a time when you need to be able to be offensive. If you're down in the score, you need to be able to attack.

While I agree with you that you don't want to be offensive right from the start of a bout, it should not be used as a rule. There are some people who just don't attack well and defend better, but there are also people who don't defend well and attack better. In that case it is better to attack, once you've found this out.

As a rule, for the first 2 touches of a pool bout and the first 5 touches of a DE bout, don't try and score offensive touches unless you find out that the person you're fencing is just way too strong in that area. Or that you can beat the person no matter what and want to get done with it quickly to rest for the next round.

In the end of a bout, it is usually better to "up the intensity" a little more and be more aggressive, if not completely offensive.

[edew]

Well, we've seen plenty of examples of what happens when one fencer is down, say, by two or so points and the time is getting near the end. The fencer who is behind starts making attacks and usually, the one ahead either gets one light or two lights go on. Seldom does the one behind manage to retake a lead. So, with 45 seconds remaining, the score might be 3-2 and end up 15-12 in favor of the one who was ahead.

Thus, it's still a losing proposition. Maybe some enterprising coach can really work on making successful offensive actions to beat this common outcome.

If so, then you'd see fencers using this offensive action at the start and take a commanding lead.

[Victor]

Edew is correct. Epee is largely about the counter-attack game.

What might seem to be a purely offensive action is very rarely ever the first intention. He's probably explored the defender's territory several times and is prepared to take the touch when the opening proves itself -- a microsecond second-intention. At most, it's a calculated risk to throw off the other guy's general expectations.

Really, most of the time you see a smart epeeist taking the initial "offensive" action, it's because he's luring his opponent to do something.

[veeco]

But don't you agree that if you are more savvy in your offensive game (or counter time for that matter, as counter times are offensive actions) you will be better at coming back from behind?
Of for that matter, what is your proposition to win a bout in which you are behind by 2 points? Just stay and wait for your opponent to make a mistake? This is not going to happen unfortunately, if the other guy is smart. At this point the best thing to do is to be offensive, and the best you can be on the offense the more chances you will have to come back from behind.

I agree with you that it's better not to be behind at the end of the bout, but different situations warrant different responses.

Also, I have seen plenty of examples myself where one fencer is down 14-13, 14-12, and even sometimes 14-11, and the fencer with the weakest score came back, because he was more proficient in his attacking game, because he had nothing to lose and fenced more relaxed, etc.

A good example is Ulrich Robeiri for example. He is a very aggressive fencer, scores a lot of points on the offense. He won the Monal challenge last year, and was a bronze medallist at last year's world championships. I don't think you can say he is a strictly defensive fencer. I would more classify what I have seen so far of his fencing as offensive.

A counter example is the Korean epee team. They are VERY defensive fencers. If you look at the scores of the Korean epee fencers, you will see that often they are very low. They are very defensive fencers, yet, they don't seem to win more bouts than the average. Loit Meelis also is a very good defensive fencer, but his attack is so poor that he doesn't do as well as he could if he shed a few pounds and got better in the offensive game.

Basically all defensive fencers tend to have a few good results, but cannot be as consistent in their results than fencers that have an offensive game as well as a defensive game. In a weapon where results are very volatile, any higher level of consistency in your results is going to give you that extra edge. And that higher level of consistency can come from a better offensive game.

[jBirch]

I disagree with Edew on this one.

The stop hit and the counter attack is still a major problem, granted, but epee is a more strategic game then the other weapons. You need to outthink your opponent, rather then simply out move them. A defensive mindset is also a reactive mindset, don't forget, and it is always the fencer with the ability to act who has the advantage. You can not control your opponent with defense, merely react to openings. Offense, the ability to dictate the terms of the conversation, and the control that it imparts on the situation, is the key to competitive success in epee as well as in foil and sabre.

What you lack, that the other weapons provide, is the shield of priority for suicidal actions. Every time you attack, you must have first outmanouvred your opponent, either physically or mentally, before you can be sure of a one-light touch. If you allow your opponent the opportunity to dictate your response, especially if you are behind, you give up any chance you have to come back since you cede the ability to control your opponent's attack.

Hope this helps.

[Victor]

But don't you agree that if you are more savvy in your offensive game ...

You're limiting the concept of what's going on to an "offensive game" (or by implication, a "defensive game"). Again, I have to suggest that the game is neither purely offensive or defensive, but a combination that maximizes opportunity for a touch regardless of momentum.

Stop thinking either-or. Start thinking counter-attacks and multiple intentions. ... Offensive defense and defensive offense coexisting in the same moment.

[veeco]

No, I think we have a terminology problem here.

I am not denying that you can be active in defense, or aggressive in defense or for that matter passive in offense, but there are specific moves that are either defensive (counter-attack) or offensive (riposte, compound attacks, simple attacks).

However, the problem with defensive moves, whether you do them in an aggressive or active manner or not, is that in all cases, you will need to rely on a specific thing that your opponent will do, which is that your opponent will make an offensive move. This is not going to happen when time runs out and that your opponent is ahead and is smart, so you need to play an offensive to create opportunities for yourself.

If I am ahead in a time crisis situation, no matter what my opponent does, I will not attack, and I will not respond to anything that my opponent does that doesn't clearly threaten me. Thus they will have to be offensive.

[Victor]

No, I think we have a terminology problem here.

I am not denying that you can be active in defense, or aggressive in defense or for that matter passive in offense, but there are specific moves that are either defensive or offensive ...

Oh, I know. You're probably right; different personal lexicons involved. And I'm not arguing just to prove I'm right and anyone else is wrong.

But it really is the way I see epee bouts now. More of a cohesive wholeness rather than "I'm on the defense" or "Let's be offensive now." It's a different kind of game when you set those attitudes aside.

At any particular moment, I'm either making a touch (hit or miss), or putting myself in a position to make a touch (which could probably be considered offense or defense), or taking a break at distance. If it looks like I'm "defensive" at any time, I'm actually just moving to the next opportunity to score.

Just sharing my view. Thought it might help.

[Grey]

Ever thought about using compound circular parries? I've found circular parries to be particularly effective in epee. Rather lengthy, skip the last paragraph if you like.

Height doesn't really matter in epee, at least in my opinion. The weapons are the same length therefore the distance from your hand to his hand when "in line" is the same... unless your opponent uses a french grip. Assuming that your opponent maintains absence of blade, simply use a direct fleche on your opponent's timing with a disengage should he/she parry.

Alternatively, you can "play" with distance as suggested above. Try "shifting" or "bouncing" or "skipping" back and forth. (Which ever method you prefer to describe the constant back-forth movement of some fencers) Slowly slip into your attacking distance. Chances are if he is a poorer opponent in terms of experience technique and understanding, he will fail to notice that you're inching in due to the fact that it looks deceiving as you're taking a "step" forward and then a "step" back.

[npkeith]

All I can say is that my epee fencing is pretty offensive (or to put it in other words....it stinks).

I will comment that like Grey recommended, my coach is working us on counter-six riposte. When I can get it to work it is *sweet*. It has to be to the point were it is reflex - if you have to think "here is a good place to use a counter-6" ...its too late. If your opponent is predicable (every time I do ....this.... he does ...that), you might be able to trigger the right attack to use a counter-6 on, but like I said, you can't think about it, you have to just do it.

[veeco]

That's the first level, being reactive. There is nothing wrong with this, it can be used against certain opponents. However against another type of opponent, of a higher calibre, it's not going to work. Whether you're doing this in offensive or defensive situation, this is not what is going to get you touches in the last minute time of a fencing bout.

Being active is looking for ways to create a situation in which you can use your counter-6. That means that you have to put some pressure on your opponent to force them to put themselves in that situation. Then you can anticipate on their reaction and use that counter-6. Doing this while being offensive is going to score you touches in the last minutes of a bout.

[counterattack]

I tend to be a defensive fencer. I'm not tall, (bad luck when you fence epee) so I really have to keep distance from my opponents who have a much longer reach. Unfortunately, I find that if I go on the offensive, I'm usually picked clean.

Suregrip,
In addition to the tactical advice that others have, I would say that if you find yourself getting picked to the arm or hand when attacking, perhaps you can also help yourself by improving your technique in a couple of ways. Extending the arm more fully and more quickly will get your bell guard in position to defend you arm. Also, adjusting your en garde position based on your oppoent's height (the taller the opponent, the higher your bell should be) will help keep counter attack picks from sneaking over your bell as you begin your extension. In my experience, some shorter opponents don't seem to realize how exposed their arm is, and they will let me just pick them off for all 15 points. I ran into this myself, when I fenced some of the taller fencers (Kelsey, for example) who will make you pay for poor technique on the attack.