Losing Foil Popularity?

[grphiw]

My fencing club is currently deciding whether to drop foil entirely or not. I'm curious: is this a growing trend? I know that there were changes in foil rules, but I can't believe that they'd have this dramatic of an effect.

If foil is slowly losing popularity in the US, then what started it?

[Musketeer]

Our salle has more foilists than epeeists and sabreurs combined. Is it maybe a regional thing?

[Black Jeebus]

My club as well has more foilists than anything else
Foil- 12
Epee- 3
Sabre- 5

Note there are people who are counted multiple times.

[Inquartata]

Going by the USFA stats there are far more foilists than either epeeists or sabre fencers nationwide. It's always been that way, pretty much. I suspect yours is a regional anomaly. My Division too is dominated by foilists...many of whom also do epee, but still none are giving up foil for the other weapons hereabouts...

[MikeHarm]

If people are switching to epee in large numbers, that usually means people aren't feeling too good about the directing in your area.

[Grey]

"No! The romance of foil should never be forsaken for the incompetence of directors!"

Ah well. The change in foil rules may be a major factor. In my country, the flickers are now finding a hard time changing to thrusts. Where as they used to thrash the beginners with their devastating flicks, their attacks were parried by the beginners and they lost at 15-12 to the beginner when they could win 15-3? 15-2?

I would advise going against the dropping of foil. It its a beauty and marvel. Of course, not that epee or sabre is any inferior...

[deadly lefty]

I think people are assuming that just because you learn on foil it means foil is a beginners weapon

[MikeHarm]

If thats correct about what's happening with foil, I'm really looking forward to competing fencing under the new rules when they go into effect at the senior level. Woohoo, go FIE.

"No! The romance of foil should never be forsaken for the incompetence of directors!"

Ah well. The change in foil rules may be a major factor. In my country, the flickers are now finding a hard time changing to thrusts. Where as they used to thrash the beginners with their devastating flicks, their attacks were parried by the beginners and they lost at 15-12 to the beginner when they could win 15-3? 15-2?

I would advise going against the dropping of foil. It its a beauty and marvel. Of course, not that epee or sabre is any inferior...

[Aestro]

Many of my members do take up a second weapon, but very few actually dorp foil here. It is the basic weapon, and with tournaments consisting of only 3 or 4 clubs, foil is by far the best weapon as far as turnout goes. Pretty much everyon starts on foil, so there's not the issue of "not knowing" the weapon (I still don't have much of a clue about sabre, and don't care to).

It's like saying Christianity is on its way out just because you meet a few more Agnostics or Atheists nowadays.

[rvergara]

my college's team:
- Foilists: 4
- Epeeists: 2
- Sabreurs: 1

but then the other non military club on the city is more like 20% foil, 70% epee, 10% sabre.

the military clubs are sabre mainly, except for the navy that are mostly epeeists.

i think it's more about the coach of every club.

[ShadowHuntr]

in my opinion, or in this case more of a thing that i noticed. it seems what people people fence depends on the quality of the people around there. for example, if your area was really good at epee and had a couple a's and b's, chances are the club these people are at will have more epee fencers, why? because these a's and b's SHOULD be good and can teach a lot of what they know to other people better than say someone who does just foil. The same thing happens in foil as well. Ultimetly I think that foil is more popular because there is a lot more noticable line between the "good" and the "bad" fencers. in the ROW weapons, the better fencer usually wins. but of course that is only my opinion

[Almightynoitall]

If thats correct about what's happening with foil, I'm really looking forward to competing fencing under the new rules when they go into effect at the senior level. Woohoo, go FIE.

oy... why flick when a thrown point uses the same action and is much less disputable??? The biggest problem with the flick isn't those that know how to do it, so much as those who think they know how to do it... If you can't land a simple attack or are beaten on the simplest parry-riposte by most beginners, you shouldn't be considered a good fencer. I believe this is why many college classes and clubs where beginners learn to fence are not allowed orthopedic grips for the first semester/year... it teaches you to FENCE. Praised be the FIE for limiting the flick.

[Almightynoitall]

"No! The romance of foil should never be forsaken for the incompetence of directors!"

Ah well. The change in foil rules may be a major factor. In my country, the flickers are now finding a hard time changing to thrusts. Where as they used to thrash the beginners with their devastating flicks, their attacks were parried by the beginners and they lost at 15-12 to the beginner when they could win 15-3? 15-2?

I would advise going against the dropping of foil. It its a beauty and marvel. Of course, not that epee or sabre is any inferior...

oy... why flick when a thrown point uses the same action and is much less disputable??? The biggest problem with the flick isn't those that know how to do it, so much as those who think they know how to do it... If you can't land a simple attack or are beaten on the simplest parry-riposte by most beginners, you shouldn't be considered a good fencer. I believe this is why many college classes and clubs where beginners learn to fence are not allowed orthopedic grips for the first semester/year... it teaches you to FENCE. Praised be the FIE for limiting the flick.

[Almightynoitall]

My fencing club is currently deciding whether to drop foil entirely or not. I'm curious: is this a growing trend? I know that there were changes in foil rules, but I can't believe that they'd have this dramatic of an effect.

If foil is slowly losing popularity in the US, then what started it?

THe majority of fencers in the Nevada division fence foil... but the better fencers are almost exclusively epeeists. still, lack of numbers and options have led to an awful lot of us fencing more than one weapon... also, recently, sabre seems to be gaining in popularity, especially with my college groups.

[The0ne]

flicking is part of fencing. . . It's like if you're fencing someone who doesn't parry 8, would you stop attacking to 8? No. You would rack up as many points as you could hitting to 8. Same thing with the flick, it's just another target. . .

[Soldier]

Ah...another misguided youth, brought up in these care-free days of liberal attitudes and anything-goes flicking.

I realize, TheOne, that fencing is a sport separate from combat. But it is still derived from combat, and should therefore try to at least stay somewhat true to it. Flicking is worse than epee's toe-touches. Any other blade simply wouldn't bend that way, or that far. And were you to flick with a real sharpened point, you wouldn't do much more than put a nick in the back of his shoulder.

Add to that the amazing latitude directors tend to give to those who flick - bringing their hand back and up in order to flick, is frequently considered preparation.

Back to the main point, however. The idea of arcing one's blade high over the opponent's head in realms where it may well be impossible to block, in order to tap him on the back of the shoulder to score the same as you would if you ran him straight through the chest, is truly abominable.

Go ahead and rule it out.

[canthidefromme]

...And were you to flick with a real sharpened point, you wouldn't do much more than put a nick in the back of his shoulder...

There's a lesson to be learned here... if you're fencing with real sharpened points, don't worry about right of way either.

[Soldier]

Really? If fencing with real sharpened points, then all the more important for me to parry your attack before I start my own. Suicide runs don't do much good.

[Inquartata]

Tell that to Al Qaeda!

[FTH finder]

Modern Fencing is first and foremost a sport and it is no longer subject to the rules governing a weapon. It is a competitive sport in which the fencers are subject to the rulings of their governing body (whether it be the referee, the bout committee, the USFA, or the FIE). Flicking has become a part of this sport because there has been little successful intervention against it by the governing committees. I very much doubt that this recent FIE ruling will play any permanent role in the evolution of the sport- it will be overruled by the wills of the fencers, referees and of the different local governing bodies. People want to do it, and they will make it work- regardless of whatever disservice it does to the roots of the sport. Fencing is an evolving sport, a 'new' sport, and attempting to halt this evolution to pay homage to some ancient system of practice is philosophical fault on the part of those who would have it undone. Change is change, people will always do as they please, and little can be done to stop it. If your opponent flicks against you- deal with it. You are just as capable of stopping it as they(who flick) are of doing it. Personally, I view it as one means to scoring a touch- it is part of my arsenal, but only a small part. Straight fencing gives you a considerable degree of flexibility.