Equipment Gift Ideas ~$100

[jrh]

Hello all, and thanks for giving me a chance to ask my question! I have read all the posts I believe pertain to the topic, and hopefully you can answer the rest of my questions:

My girlfriend has been fencing sabre for going on 3 years now at the college level (having started as a freshman in college) and is looking to continue for quite a long time. She is a smaller girl, (5'1" about 105 lbs) and has trouble with some of the equipment. Her birthday is quickly approaching and I was wondering what type of gift I could give her ~$100-200 as the maximum budget that would be of most benifit to her as a saberist.

Luckily being so small, the club has a lame that only fits her, and she has recently purchased her own glove, so the two main pieces of equipment I was considering were mask and weapon.

I talked to a few of the fencers in club (unfortionatly there is no coach) and they gave me the outlines of what to look for, electric sabre, full bib on the mask, and it was brought to my attention that all the blades were "s2000 blades". I asked what that meant and the response I recieved was, "I'm not sure, but I think if its not S2000 it is not legal" (I was not talking to the armourer at the time) I have also noticed from the tournaments I have attended that they are plastic handed weapons and the blades have a Y-cross section.

My intial thought was to buy a mask, I was looking at the Leon Paul 350. Do you think this would be a good choice for her? Would you have any other suggestions? Obviously I was going to ask to measure her properly (may ruin the suprise) before I ordered anything.

As far as the weapon is concerned I was looking at the Leon Paul
"Electric Sabres: Opptions - Size: 5, Blade: Paul France , Handle: Leather , Guard: Lighweight Super Strong 1, Hand - Hand: Right 1, Inside guard socket - Inside guard socket: 2-pin"
I was trying to make sure that the weapon was light, and also comfortable to hopefully give her an improvement from the club's weapons she has used before. The questions I have concerning this weapon are would this blade be legal? And I know the connector has two contacts, it looks similar to a 9V battery connector. I am curious if I have chosen the correct connector.

With those two choices in mind, and the lame and glove already taken care of does that sound like an acceptable gift to a fencer of her experience? I was considering buying another blade in addition to the sabre, but I am not sure yet.

I apologize if this topic has already been touched upon, if it has, please just reference the previous post and I would be very greatful.

Thank you for any help you can give to a boyfriend trying desperately to pretend he knows more than he does about fencing sabre.

Jeff Hester

EDIT

While I have your attention, would it be a smarter idea on concentrating the full amount on a mask such as the Leon Paul stainless 1600 other than buying a weapon and a mask? Just another thought. Thanks again!

[Zilverzmurfen]

Hi Jeff!

I'm an epéeist myself but I just spontanously felt like answering your question.

In my opinion, if you'll be buying her a mask, you should go for one that is approved by the FIE. Ie. 1600 N.

I think she'll be really happy that you took interest in her fencing and supporting her by giving her fencing equipment! (Atleast I would if I was her.) Good luck with whatever choice you make!

[yeoldearmourer]

Here again if you what to buy her a mask go for the FIE 1600 one for her safety. She a Lucky Girl contiue to support her.


Tim

www.yeoldearmourer.com

[jrh]

thank you guys very much! the 1600 it is. now I just have to figure out how to trip and "accidently" measure the circumference of her head.

For future reference would that weapon be acceptable? I have a feeling that at some point if I don't ask now, I'll be back here around x-mas time looking for more guidance!

Thanks again!

Jeff

[whtouche]

I'll second(third-nd?) the nudge towards an FIE 1600N mask. They will last infinitely longer than one of the lower end ones. Make sure when you buy it tho that it specifies that it is for sabre, or you'll end up with a very expensive practice mask.
My concern however is where you're going to find an FIE mask for 100 dollars. Most I've seen run above that at least. If you're going all out and springing over your budget I would suggest, if it's within your means, a leon paul x-change sabre mask with removeable bib.
I have one, and I love it. When the bib wears out you can just replace it, adding greatly to the mask's lifespan.
As far as measuring her head, you could just get your hands casually on the mask she uses now and check if it's small medium,large etc. then just go for that. And if you get a leon paul mask, dont worry if their small isnt exactly the same as the small she uses now - tho Im not really sure how the sizes run - as all the lining inside, the padding etc, is velcro'd in and adjustable. When I got my mask over a year ago it was way too big. I pulled out all the lining, adjusted it, and it fits perfectly now. Same mask.

At the risk of running on forever, on the subject of blades:
s2000 is a standard for the stiffness of a blade. That's not really important to know as long as you order a blade described as s2000, and keep in mind some blades are stiffer and some are very flexible. That being said I wouldn't order a pre-assembled sabre from leon paul. All their parts are expensive, and their sabre blades are heavy and much too expensive.
You'd be better off going to blue gauntlet (www.blue-gauntlet.com) and picking out a pre-made sabre there. Make sure it says "electric" in the description tho, or again you'll get a practice blade useless in competition. As for what socket to get, find out what kind of body cords the team uses (two-prong or bayonet) and get a sabre with a corresponding socket.
If you're looking for further gift ideas, altho I am in favor of the mask idea, you could take that money and buy her a sabre and a couple of body cords and a mask cord. Whichever route you decide to go, good luck to you. Post back if you have any further questions.

[jrh]

Well thank you again for the responses!

The FIE mask I was looking at was listed here as the S11 (second from the bottom):

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Onl..._Range_79.html

It appears to be an electric sabre mask with a wide bib. One thing I did hear was to make sure that I got a mask with a wide bib. It is alittle less expensive than the mask with the X-change bib, but I would have no problem buying either mask. From the pictures the S11 mask looks to have a larger bib than the S11CX (the mask with X-change) but if the removable bib is worth the extra $$ then I may just have to spring for that as well.

Unfortionatly blue gaunlet's website is down, but I will check on a weapon later and repost with some more questions (I imagine). Does anyone know which connector I am talking about? It literally looks like the connector for a 9V battery. One male and one female connection, in the pommel itself. (phew, I better take a cold shower before I think I know what I'm talking about)

Thanks again!

Jeff

[jrh]

Well now that I have found blue gaunlet the plot thickens even further!

Now the mask choices are as follows:
S11 from Leon Paul : FIE approved electric sabre mask, appears to have a wide bib. $150
S11CX from Leon Paul : FIE approved electric sabre mask, is equipped with X-change bib system $200
M1602 from Blue Gauntlet : FIE approved electric sabre mask, manufactuered by BG. $125
M1605 from Blue Gauntlet : FIE approved electric sabre mask, manufactuered by Uhlmann $180

Those are the 4 masks I consider in my price range. Granted, she is only fencing 2-3 times during the week, so its not an every night occurance, but at the same time I think that is enough frequency to warrent a great fitting mask. Heck, I'm sure you guys could talk me into an even more expensive mask if you tried hard enough.

After we get the mask sorted out I'll start asking about the weapons, in the mean time I am going to try to do some more research on them, but thank you for the explanation of the "S2000" it makes sense.

Please by all means, if you have a mask you would suggest other than the 4 listed above that is similarly priced, please bring it to my attention.

Thanks!
Jeff

[damianip]

I'd go for the Leon Paul, especially if it has the Contour Fit system (an option on the S11, standard on the S11CX).

Very comfortable.

Paolo

[CvilleFencer]

First off let me say that it is very cool that you are taking an active interest in your others sport. I wish mine would!

I think the 1600 mask is the way to go. You have some good options and in my opinion you are looking at two of the best masks around with the LP and the Uhlmann. In fact there is only one other I think is in there league and that is Negrini. It is an italian company and their mesh is very strong and durable. I have seen a lot of these worn by high level fencers and they do seem to take quite a beating. They tend to be a bit cheaper than the other two as well, but do not seem to have the brand name appeal of the others. If Uhlmann is a Mercedes and LP a Jaguar (Okay, Jags are just Fords with leather seats these days so think Bentley) then the Negrini would be a nice Infinity sedan! :-) Any way you cut it the Negrini would be better than the BG house brand for the same money IMHO.

My main suggestion for your budget would be to check out the fencing post. They offer a 20% discount off of their listed prices if you place an internet order, they ship really fast and fairly cheaply, and they are in the states so you will have the order quick. You can find them at www.thefencingpost.com

To give you an idea of the prices after the discount:


Uhlmann FIE 1600N Sabre mask: $160.00
Negrini FIE 1600N Sabre mask: $135.00
Uhlmann FIE 1600N Sabre mask with the removeable liner (Similair to the comfort plus system in the LP: $171.00

If you did go with the LP I would spring for the Xchange mask as it is a very cool idea. Anyway, hope all that helps a little.

[prototoast]

Let me add my support for the Negrini 1600N sabre mask. While the LP xchange mask is certainly great, for the price difference, the Negrini is wonderful. The mesh is very strong--I haven't felt safer in any other mask I've tried--and I find it quite comfortable.

[DHCJr]

It appears that no one has answered your question about connectors. I will try and answer. There are 2 main types, 2-prong and bayonet and there are various brands and types of these. Since what you describe appears to be a 2-prong connector, I will concentrate on that.

At the club check 2 things. If there is a plastic piece on connector in the guard, then it most likely a 'French' style. If the body cord appears almost triangular in cross section and has a button that pushes out either a metal or plastic hook, then it is most likely a 'German' style. There are others, but these are by far the most common. You can up to a point interchange the styles, but it is best not to.

If it is the French style, I would go with Prieur. There are others, but Prieur will be the most common. PBT used to make a French style and if you can get it, I would, but it will be very hard to find.

If it is German, you have several choices. I would stick with an established manufacturer. I would suggest, Uhlmann, Allstar or PBT. There are a few other European manufacturers, that are very good, but their equipment does not carry brands and unless you know what you are looking for, you are taking chances.

I hope this was of help.

[jrh]

well thank you guys very much for all the responses! It is great that you share all your knowledge with an imposter such as myself!

As far as the mask goes, I am thinking that I will have to buy the Uhlmann 1600N with removable bib from thefencingpost.com, as much as I liked the Leon Paul, the removable bib looked smaller on the LP than it is on the Uhlmann, and I know for a fact she wanted a widebib. Hopefully by springing for the nicer mask she wont have to buy another one for some time (if ever!)

with regards to the weapon connectivity issue (thanks for the response Donald) I found this picture:
http://www.thefencingpost.com/Pictur...ockets%202.JPG

The connector they used is without a doubt the connector seen on the left-most sabre. That being said, what is there to look for in a sabre? I know I need an S2000 blade, all of their blades have a Y cross-section; any specific features i should look for?

Thanks alot again! Now I have to wait a month until her birthday to give her the mask. I can't wait!

[CvilleFencer]

The connector on the left is a German style connector and is probably the most popular one around. The middle is a Bayonet which seems mainly popular in the UK or with fencers whose coach is from that area. I do know a couple of people how use them just so no one "borrows" their cords as they are pretty uncommon. The last one is a French style connecter. It can be used with a German cord or a French, but I dislike them just for fit and finish reasons.

Keeping in mind that I only fence saber for fun and not competitively, here is what I look for in a sabre blade.

Light weight.
Durability.
Y shape to the blade.
Some type of finish to protect the blade from rust/corrosion.
Balance.

Of the sabre blades I have tried I like the SM Gold blades the best. I have never seen the need to get an FIE sabre blade, although they are required for international/worldcup type events. I would stay away from the cheaper chinese blades (JL, Blue Guantlet). They are light weight but I have heard the take nasty bends and are never the same again. I think you would do fine with either the SM, Uhlman, or LP sabres that the fencing post sells. You will get great German fittings for no extra charge as well with weapons you order from them. I am sure that some of the real sabre fencers on the board (Peach, Inquartata, etc.) will have some more detailed advice. Good luck!

[MyraTrue]

jrh- the Uhlmann with the removable bib is a NICE mask. I love mine (Well, the epee version). And I cast my vote with the others: a good mask is the most important thing!

Now as to measuring her head, thats an interesting problem. I had a friend who managed to get the measurement by complaining about how tight his sweatshirt hood was, and how did he just have a big head? And so he measured his and then measured hers to "compare" to see if he had a big head. She was surprised when he fessed up and handed her the mask.

[jrh]

CvilleFencer, thanks for the tips on the blades. I will keep that all in mind. She fences because she loves it, and really doesn't mind how she does in tournaments. (pretty good if you ask me considering the club doesn't have a coach) So your guidlines concerning the sabre itself will be great. Thank you.

MyraTrue, great idea with measuring her head. I think that might just work. Also, I found out today someone in the club has an Uhlmann foil mask in size 1, so I may try to get her to try that on and see how it fits. I am guessing she is a size 0 (some of the fencers who know her thought I might want to buy a child's mask).

Keep the tips coming. So right now I am looking at an Uhlmann 1600N with removable bib and german connector sabre of some sort. Sound good?

[gulebukser]

I think that would be a very nice gift.

[MyraTrue]

Sounds great!

Mask: I know I fit a size small mask by just about every manufacturer, and fit a size 1 in Uhlmann.

Most women I know fit into the size 1, a few of the smaller ones into the 0. But definitly see if you can get her to try on the size 1. Maybe if you can go along and pretend to try it on, or even try. "WOW this thing is small! Does this fit YOU?" Maybe another fencer might be coerced into helping you. "I think you and I fit about the same size mask, and I'm thinking to buy an Uhlmann. Does this one fit you?"

If anything, someone accused you of having a long face, or a big head... or something?

As to the sabre, I really never knew any sabre fencers who really liked one blade over another. It might just be that in our club, we don't really have enough long term sabre fencers who've tried enough equipment to say "I like X over Y!" I know they like some of the newer bits and pieces (say the grip and pommel and guard etc) better than the old klunky things we've got in use still. All I know about blades is that the preS2000 blades were whippy as spaghetti and I used to get welts all over me from fencing with them. The new S2000 blades have VERY little flexibility!

good luck!

[DHCJr]

As CvlleFencer pointed out the style you pointed out was 'German'. Another brand I should have mentioned is Negrini. The wires are the stongest I ever saw on a body cord.

It does seem strange a Sabreist would want as large a bib as posible as that is part of their opponents target. The part that fails the most is the bib. That is what makes the X-Change mask so nice. I was also going to suggest to all sabreist to clip to the mask rather then the bib and not next to the bib. Yes it comes off easier, but those teeth seem to have more of a affect on the bib then on the lame I have a feeling it is because of the padding is the cause, but a lot of mask fail right where the bib is clipped.

[jrh]

excellent ideas guys, i think im gonna con her into measuring her head tonight.

as far as the wide-bib goes, I think that was part of my mind speaking as well. How do I put this...she bruises very easily, and she is much smaller than I am. So as a result, there have been times we have been out in public before and we have gotten some odd looks from strangers, as a 5'1" 105 lbs girl covered in bruises is walking with a 5' 9" 180 lbs ex-wrestler. It just doesn't look very good. So maybe I wanted a larger bib to help cut down on bruising.

Actually one of my main reasons for choosing the Uhlmann over the LP is because if the mask does not fit correctly I am worried about shipping the LP back to the UK to get a replacement within the warrenty period.

I talked to her casually about a weapon and she makes it sound like she is worried if she had her own weapon she would be worried about breaking it if it was too expensive, so I was thinking about either throwing the sabre idea out or perhaps just buying the SM -Y S2000 sabre from fencing post instead of the uhlmann. Hopefully with a nice mask and SM sabre she will be set for alittle while as far as fencing goes. (then after she graduates I'll have to get a lame and body chord...it never ends! heh)

[neevel]

Originally Posted by jrh

As far as the mask goes, I am thinking that I will have to buy the Uhlmann 1600N with removable bib from thefencingpost.com, as much as I liked the Leon Paul, the removable bib looked smaller on the LP than it is on the Uhlmann, and I know for a fact she wanted a widebib. Hopefully by springing for the nicer mask she wont have to buy another one for some time (if ever!)

Keep in mind that the "removable bib" on the Uhlmann/Allstar Extra masks is something of a misnomer, and not at all the same thing as the Leon Paul removable bib. What the Uhlmann/Allstar masks have is a portion of the interior liner (the part that rests against the temples and forehead) that's attached with velcro and can be removed for washing. The lame bib itself is fixed, and thus can't be easily replaced when the lame goes bad. There are people (like Bill Hall) who will replace the lame bib for you, but it'll cost $80-100 and take a little time.

-Dave