Weight Test

[o4aversob]

Do you have to buy the stupid 40 dollar weight thing just to test your foil? Is there a way I can test the spring weight with my buzz box and not that expensive waste of money? Oh yeah, is the weight requirement going to change so there's no point in buying the weights out now?

[prototoast]

you can do it with any 500 gram weight, but unless it has a hole for the tip to slip in, it can be a very tricky balancing act.

[mfp]

Plastic 500 ml bottles of water for foil (and 750 ml bottles for epee) can serve as cheap, rough substitutes for weights when testing your weapons at home. The plastic bottle bottoms of some brands of water even have convenient dimples.

[yeoldearmourer]

Turn your foil upside down depress the tip and let the tip push the foil up same for epee as a foil weight abount 500 gram and epee about 750. this is a quick and dirty way of doing it.


Tim

[o4aversob]

When I do a weight test, what am I looking for? Is the light supposed to be on for only a certain # of seconds or something? How do I know if it failed?

[prototoast]

When I do a weight test, what am I looking for? Is the light supposed to be on for only a certain # of seconds or something? How do I know if it failed?

The spring is supposed to be able to "support" the weight. Basically, you put it on with the tip depressed and let the weight sit. If the spring can push up the weight (undepress itself), you're fine.

[R. Exnicios]

The spring is supposed to be able to "support" the weight. Basically, you put it on with the tip depressed and let the weight sit. If the spring can push up the weight (undepress itself), you're fine.

Not to be stickler but the spring must be able to push the weight up not just support it.

rule section:
m.11 1.
. . .
3. The pressure required on the pointe d’arret, in order to break the contact and cause the apparatus to register a touch, must be more than 500 g, that is to say that this weight must be lifted by the spring of the point. The weight of 500 g supplied by the Organizing Committee may have a tolerance of ± 2 g, i.e. 498–502 g.

It sound the same but a spring that is borderline or even dirty may hold up the weight but not lift it. Yellow Card!

Cheers

[Artisan]

Turn your foil upside down depress the tip and let the tip push the foil up same for epee as a foil weight abount 500 gram and epee about 750. this is a quick and dirty way of doing it.
Tim

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you Tim. That only tells you the spring can lift as much as the weapon, not if it will pass. 500 and 750 grams are MAXIMUM permissable weights for foils and epees. Few actually weigh that much. Get a gram scale and weigh a bunch of epees. You'll find most epees weigh in at less than 500 grams, and foils about 350, probably a little more for french grips with heavy pommels.

To test without a weight - and if you have a gram scale (postal scale) you can set it at the desired weight and see if you can move the tray without depressing the tip - then it will pass - or measure the stength of the spring directly by pushing down on scale and seeing how much force (weight) it takes to budge the tip.

FYI:
German epee tip and barrel = 12 g
Vnity epee blade = 190 g
BF blade (w/ wire & glue, pistol) = 140-150 g
Lightweight alum guard (blue gauntlet) 125 g
Socket with steel base = 35 g
Socket with alum. base (leon Paul) 18 g
Uhlmann Lg visconti grip = 125 g

[MyraTrue]

Do you have to buy the stupid 40 dollar weight thing just to test your foil? Is there a way I can test the spring weight with my buzz box and not that expensive waste of money? Oh yeah, is the weight requirement going to change so there's no point in buying the weights out now?

This largely depends on if you fence epee or foil. If you fence epee, then the weight will not change AND the foil weight is also going to 750 grams, isn't it? So an epee weight is well worth your time. OR a combined foil+epee weight.

While I also cringe at paying $40 for a weight, I know how important weights and shims are (to epee). I have no love of being carded for non-conforming weapons, and thus being unable to fence with what I brought to the strip. They're worth it, believe me!

[DangerMouse]

For those of you in the midwest college circuit, you should ask the Lawrence fencing coach about buying his homemade weights, which also have a built in provision for testing lames. He made them with an analytical chemistry balance so they are accurate 500g and 750g +- .0001g

[MyraTrue]

Oh, I'd consider that! I need a set still.

But is it POSSIBLE to test anything that heavy on an analytical? I thought they didn't handle anything that size. Not that I MIND!!

[DHCJr]

For those of you in the midwest college circuit, you should ask the Lawrence fencing coach about buying his homemade weights, which also have a built in provision for testing lames. He made them with an analytical chemistry balance so they are accurate 500g and 750g +- .0001g

If they are the weights I am thinking of they are Great weights for Armorers and Lousy weight for Fencers. Consider this, you test your weapon on a super-accurate weight and the weight on the strip is a little heavy. It passes on your weight and fails on the weight on the strip. Which one matters?

My suggestion is a Russian or a Japanese weight, which are usually cheaper and almost always illegally heavy. I have weights that are as accurate as the ones above and I use them when I am behind the table. But when I am with the US Team, I have a Russian combi-weight. The US Team traditionally never gets Yellow Cards on the equipment.

Even a weapon that is 50 grams over the minimum is not going to affect a fencer. If you get a accurate weight add 4 quarters to the top. That way you will not worry about the weight on the strip and you will have money to phone home.

Also, I always suggest for fencers, don't get 'Official' shims. Go to an auto store and get guages there. First for the same reason above and second, if a weapon is set at 0.495 will pass, but so will 0.001. With 'Official' shims you will not be able to tell the difference.

[DangerMouse]

Also, I always suggest for fencers, don't get 'Official' shims. Go to an auto store and get guages there. First for the same reason above and second, if a weapon is set at 0.495 will pass, but so will 0.001. With 'Official' shims you will not be able to tell the difference.

I always use the .45mm one to test my weapons. I think with shims they specify .5mm +- 10% which gives you a legal range of .45-.55mm.

[DHCJr]

DangerMouse, you are correct in the range 0.45 and 0.55, which would be 10% tolerance, but it is actually writen as + or - 0.05 for both shims. So the large shim is 1.45 - 1.55.

You are doing better than most by your actions. I was remiss in not explaning myself clearer when I suggested the automotive shims. I actually work with multiple shims when working on a weapon. I attempt to get the weapon within a certain range. So I have one guage which I want the weapon to fail at and the second the one I want the weapon to pass at.

It varies depending on the event, how trusting I am of the guages used by the organizers, etc.

You choice of 0.45 is an excellent one. I would suggest a second one at around 0.20 or 0.30. If it passes with these shims, you may have intermittent hits.

Thank you for mentioning T.44. I still have trouble remembering that rule is there.

[Artisan]

So I have one guage which I want the weapon to fail at and the second the one I want the weapon to pass at.

It varies depending on the event, how trusting I am of the guages used by the organizers, etc.

You choice of 0.45 is an excellent one.

Which begs the question, why doesn't someone make a Go/NoGo shim set similar to gauges used by machinists?
I have a piece of shimstock @ .45 with a notch in it for said purpose.

[DangerMouse]

You choice of 0.45 is an excellent one. I would suggest a second one at around 0.20 or 0.30. If it passes with these shims, you may have intermittent hits.

I actually use the .45 and try to set the contact spring to register a touch with a .35 shim. I only do this before a big competition, otherwise I just test with the .45 and eyeball how much farther it needs to travel before registering.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

I recently took a length of 30*30 mm square steel bar out of the thrash bin at work (mechanical industry) and drilled a dia. 13mm hole through most of its length (approx. 15 cm). Checked it on the electronic scale, and drilled a second hole to get the weight to 753 g. Presto! considerable sum saved during lunch.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson