New Article: Future foil -- foil after the FIE changes

[NSXER]

Well written analysis!

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by DHCJr

As for the If part, Craig and Walter should let the FIE know about the rule change. Before the FIE sent out their report, there was an 'Unofficial', reporting of what the vote was. The problem is when the FIE reported the changes in Escrime and press releases, there was no mention of the tip.

There is also the problem of 'Where are you going to get this tip, since there are no manufacturers who have come out with the tip. There were only some prototypes from one manufacturer.

If someone has something official from the FIE, I would like to see it.

I read it at www.escrime-info.com

[DHCJr]

I plan on eating crow tonight!

Thank you wflaschka. It shows later in that thread on page 3, that I reported the FIE was going to use the new tip, but that was all they said. After that, Issue 46 came out, not mentioning the tip and stating the other recomendations. I didn't read the article as carefully as possible. Even though it came out after the press release, it was talking about the decisions in Havana, the month before.

We may be having the tip after all.

Barry, has the FIE, sent you the specifications on the new tip? I know in December, you hadn't.

[downunder]

Originally posted by DanInMI
The tip was not only approved, but adopted. It will first be used by juniors next year. barring any unforeseen problems it will be used by the rest of us sometime after that.

according to Barry Paul (who i had the pleasure of meeting quite recently) he says that can't happen before the start of the junior season simply cos none of the manufacturers have it

[The0ne]

The reason the changes are unnessicary is because foil IS going that way already. . . Long flick attacks are out, footwork is in in a big way. . . If you look at the difference in the march from the Cubans back in the 90s and the Italian team in the 2003 World Championships, it's a remarkable change. THere is no long striding footwork anymore, too easy to counter into. The changes are really unnessecary, which is why I'm against them.

That was very correct and concise extrapolation in the article, well done!

[klauver]

Originally posted by Craig
Nope. Written for Fencing.Net - you can only find it here.

Craig

Craig,
Could you please post a direct link to the article?
Thanks,
Ken

[Strytllr]

I don't know Walter,

That's not very Nostradamussy at all. I mean, you weren't vague or cryptic or anything! Even worse, you spelled things out clearly and used good, explicit examples.

Nostradamus would not be proud of you.

hehe. Nice article. I wonder, if in 10 years or so (or maybe less), we'll be able to go back to your article and see how well you did.

Strytllr

[Craig]

Originally posted by klauver
Craig,
Could you please post a direct link to the article?
Thanks,
Ken

Click on the "Fencing.Net Home Page" link at the top left and you'll see the headline.

Fencing.Net Home Page

[walrus418]

I see the changes as a good thing, making the technology of the foil (especially the whipiness) less a factor than the techiques of using it.

I have for some time been concerned that fencers were "buying" points through new technology instead of earning them with solid practice and performance. This has been exacerbated when the foils are not properly checked for bend and flexibiity (as they rarely are at smaller events).

Other than the complex methodology laid out in the rules manual (with weights and the gauge from rule m.42) does anyone have a quicker, easier way of inspecting weapons at a tournament?

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by Strytllr
I don't know Walter,

That's not very Nostradamussy at all. I mean, you weren't vague or cryptic or anything! Even worse, you spelled things out clearly and used good, explicit examples.

Nostradamus would not be proud of you.

hehe. Nice article. I wonder, if in 10 years or so (or maybe less), we'll be able to go back to your article and see how well you did.

Strytllr

1)
The wand in the hand will use only the tip.
When the flicker is overturned by the rulemakers,
and faces are covered by masks,
At this time the reds and the greens will rule rightly.
2)
In combat and duel of honour,
The mangiarottipoint will give to the sustenance
Marching adversary will become pale with fear,
Putting the great lungers in victory.
3)
Arm and the silver joined together,
Towards the shoulderblade , extreme drought,
The inhabitants will come to stab them,
When the arcing tip will fail in Rhodes and Genoa.

[Talysen]

Originally posted by DanInMI
1)
The wand in the hand will use only the tip.
When the flicker is overturned by the rulemakers,
and faces are covered by masks,
At this time the reds and the greens will rule rightly.
2)
In combat and duel of honour,
The mangiarottipoint will give to the sustenance
Marching adversary will become pale with fear,
Putting the great lungers in victory.
3)
Arm and the silver joined together,
Towards the shoulderblade , extreme drought,
The inhabitants will come to stab them,
When the arcing tip will fail in Rhodes and Genoa.

Perfect! Now that's clear as mud! I understand perfectly!

Great piece btw wflaschka!

[frenzl]

yes it was a great artice. told how the evolution of foil will be in the next few years, especially for those who don't get to see teams like the chineese or who ever is starting to use more of the tip attacks.

[Strytllr]

1)
The wand in the hand will use only the tip.
When the flicker is overturned by the rulemakers,
and faces are covered by masks,
At this time the reds and the greens will rule rightly.
2)
In combat and duel of honour,
The mangiarottipoint will give to the sustenance
Marching adversary will become pale with fear,
Putting the great lungers in victory.
3)
Arm and the silver joined together,
Towards the shoulderblade , extreme drought,
The inhabitants will come to stab them,
When the arcing tip will fail in Rhodes and Genoa.

*laugh!!!!!!

Now... in italian...

[labouche]

Originally posted by Strytllr
That's not very Nostradamussy at all. I mean, you weren't vague or cryptic or anything! Even worse, you spelled things out clearly and used good, explicit examples.

I'll give you "Notradamussy" article: I believe in the near futer foil fencing is going to change. There we go..that's more like it.
-la bouche

[Grey]

I doubt so that you will get to see the chinese team. Maybe its simply because europe is a little bias against asians in their league. Sorry I've no solid evidence to support this assumption.

[veeco]

Oh puhlease! The Chinese team is one of the Asian teams that travels the most. Haibin Wang actually lives in France, and fences in Lyon. The Chinese team competes in a lot of tournaments here, even national ones (non world cup ones).

Here, check out these results from Escrime info, of the latest Senoir men's foil national tournament. 5 of the top 8 fencers are Chinese.

http://www.escrime-info.com/modules/...enis-Hotel.htm

Do you think that the refs, in France, who were French, were so biased for the Chinese that they let them win all of their bouts on their way to the top 8?

One of the foil coaches in my club is Korean, and he is very much appreciated by everyone here in the club.

Saying that the Asians are not welcome in Europe is a load of bull.

[Craig]

Originally posted by frenzl
yes it was a great artice. told how the evolution of foil will be in the next few years, especially for those who don't get to see teams like the chineese or who ever is starting to use more of the tip attacks.

< Shameless plug >
You can see the Chinese team in the Men's Team Gold Medal match on the 2003 World Championships DVD from Fencing.Net: http://www.fencing101.com/catalog/
< /Shameless plug >

Cheers,
Craig

[mrvegas]

I read the Flaschka article and thought it was very interesting.
However, does anybody really have a good idea how much the reduction
in blocking time will affect the ability to reposte against a fast
remise? Or stop hit against a big preparation? It seems that
at the higher levels, a third of a second is still plenty of time to
finish an action.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by mrvegas
I read the Flaschka article and thought it was very interesting.
However, does anybody really have a good idea how much the reduction
in blocking time will affect the ability to reposte against a fast
remise? Or stop hit against a big preparation? It seems that
at the higher levels, a third of a second is still plenty of time to
finish an action.

The good fencers finish fast enough that it won't be a problem.

Check out the video in the 'You make the call' thread, that attack lands within the proposed lock-out time. Marching attacks won't disappear entirely, unless the refs change the way they interpret the calls.

What will change is how they are done. With the increased contact time, stop-hit-runaway actions are harder to get. The point needs to stay depressed longer, and thus hinders getting away effectively. With the flick being harder to land (if the new point is ever actually used), you will see a lot more fencers counter-attacking (getting inside the tip, ducking, and generally squirminess) against the marching attacks. This will force the attackers to keep the point more on target, and keep a longer distance to effectively land a touch as opposed to being able to flick the point in at the last second.

The reduction is not going to turn foil into epee.
Marching attacks will still be used, although differently.
The flick will be seen, but not as much.
DanInMI will still argue that the rules are being ignored, not interpreted.
I will still say that it's interpretation.
And the top fencers will still win.

That's if the changes actually get approved for the senior events. Which I doubt they will without some , at least minor, changes.