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Creation Date: 11-26-2007 10:54 AM
catwood1 catwood1 is offline
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My name is Chris. I am the co-founder of the GMU fencing team, for which I currently serve as the coach, and the captain, The crazy part is that im only 20, and I am not a very accomplished fencer. I referee (alot) because I need the money and I enjoy it. Im becoming a better referee than I am fencer, by far.

So I am going to try to use this blog to document and follow my development as a referee, from local schmo, into hopefully, an international level ref...
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In Fencing Journals Lying cheating biased referees Entry Tools Rate This Entry
  #81 New 10-05-2009 03:48 AM
A post in the most recent NjSux thread prompted me to write this. Not quite worthy of a thread, but im interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

In my experience, I have never been to an event with biased referees.* I find alot of people think some events tend to have biased refs, but I've never seen it to be true. I think there are 2 things that lead to problems.

1) When a club hosts an event and hires its own coaches or fencers to referee it, those refs will have a very similar [read: identical] view of RoW as the fencers from that club. This may lead to calls being made for the fencers of that club that others consistently disagree with. Its not because when you have a group of people that practice together, they tend to have a very similar view of RoW.**

Along those lines, these fencers would know the way the "refs" would call things VERY well, and might be more adjusted to the mistakes that ref is likely to make. If my clubmate has a habit of missing tight counter ripostes, I might intentionally remise my riposte, hoping he'll make that mistake. He gives it to me, and my opponent thinks he's cheating, when he isn't.

2) Thats 1 mistake I often see people make. The other is the exact opposite, but only true with fairly high level refs (not necessarily high by rating, but good solid refs.) When you ref a fencer often, you tend to learn the mistakes he makes. If I'm reffing a sabre bout that is teammate vs. guy I've never seen before, I might be more likely to see the mistakes my teammate is making, because I know the way he preps off the line, or whatever else. Its not because I'm cheating, I just know the fencer extremely well.

I find it really offensive when I hear people talk about biased refs. I've refereed a decent number of competition bouts. I've never been biased in a bout, and most of the refs I am friends with can say the same thing. There's a difference between BAD refereeing and BIASED refereeing.

*Self refereed events do not count. I have seen COUNTLESS examples of biased or otherwise ridiculous refereeing at these events. IMHO, they shouldn't exist, but I digress...

** My good friend and I tend to have a nearly identical view of refereeing, even more so then the others at our club. This often leads to the appearance of me being biased when I'm reffing his practice bouts. I give him touches that others think are theirs. Its not because I'm cheating, its just because we have an identical view of RoW...
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RSS Feed 6 Responses to "Lying cheating biased referees"
#6 10-07-2009 01:17 PM
catwood1 Says:
Fair enough, I was pretty unclear.

I just mean intentionally cheating... which isn't quite what biased means, but its close!
#5 10-07-2009 01:07 PM
Allen Evans Says:
I'm not sure that I understand what your definition of "bias" is.
#4 10-07-2009 01:01 PM
catwood1 Says:
Inq, I think you're right on the money. I'm sure it has happened, but its not nearly as prevalent as angry people think it is.

On a side note, I've seen PLENTY of violations of the referee code of ethics. The code of ethics includes 4 "prongs" Integrity, competence, responsibility, and dignity. I've seen all 4 of those broken, but I wouldn't call them biased / cheating referees.

Linda, I'm sure that is the case. Although from what I gather, even at domestic national events, there is still a high variability of refereeing. I don't mean good vs. bad so much as tight vs loose, etc. Interested that your experience is different.
#3 10-07-2009 11:15 AM
lindajdunn Says:
I note that I must fence differently depending upon where I'm fencing and I love the NACs and SN because sabre ROW is called more consistently there.
#2 10-06-2009 11:58 PM
Inquartata Says:
I think you're right.

I have seen a couple of violations of the refereee code of ethics over the years, only one of which might---might---have been actual favoring of a fencer. I was fencing this kid in a Div II NAC years ago. The ref was also a well-known coach, who has produced some top sabre fencers. Some strange calls for a guy of that caliber ( how do you mistake a parry seconde-riposte for a simultaneous attack? ) and I lost 15-14. Only months later did I find out that my opponent was one of the ref's students in his coaching life...
#1 10-05-2009 02:17 PM
Had a ref. during an epee bout ask my opponent's coach whether one of my hits was a floor hit or not. It wasn't. If it had been a floor hit, I would have said so. Of course the opponent's coach said it was a floor hit, so I didn't get the point. I find that both biased (since the ref. was from the club I was fencing at) and bad ref'ing. Have had instances in foil, too, but agree with you that that could just be how ROW is viewed, so won't complain there. But even though I'm only writing about one incident, it still p***es me off. Should never have happened.
 



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